Need advice for Gillier-pantone mounting petrol

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14141
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 08/03/10, 23:39

Hello Yael
Yael wrote: 1 ---- The GVI (as described in the assembly for 205 D which uses two coaxial tubes inserted in the exhaust and a constant level valve).
As explained then, it is in fact a boiler !!! javascript: emoticon (': frown:') And it must even damn boil given the temperature and the flow of the engine gases!
Also creating a strong pressure pushing (pure) steam into the reactor and the engine intake.


The GVI certainly provides a vapor of the same style as the bubbler. As I see it, in fact when the walls of the GVI exceed 100 ° under the exhaust gases, there is a phenomenon of heat build-up on the internal walls.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cal%C3%A9faction

Caléfaction (from the Latin calefacere: to heat) is a phenomenon of thermal insulation of a liquid compared to a heating surface having reached a threshold temperature Ts higher than the boiling point of the liquid Te. This phenomenon is due to the formation of a vapor layer between the heating surface and the liquid, making heat transfer much slower. When the surface temperature decreases (but remains between Te and Ts) there is a sudden boiling (cause of many explosions of boilers in the early days of the steam engine).

Drop in heating.

Hotdling is commonly seen when a drop of water falls on a hot plate. The drop appears to roll over the surface and does not vaporize immediately. Likewise, liquid nitrogen when spilled on a surface at room temperature forms droplets which roll over the surface.


The steam and the water mix together in the cramped space and there must come out a mist of water droplets in steam under a pressure of a few milibars. I suppose that in a wide temperature range of the exhaust, this operation remains "constant" except the water / steam flow which must vary with the depression of the engine.

But those who have mounted bubblers have said that the water should not be boiling or the reactor is malfunctioning? What seems contradictory to me ???

It is an experimental data which says that it works better without boiling .... the why ????

My question is: according to your experience what is the form of vapor to obtain?


As far as I know no one has managed to characterize this vapor scientifically. For my part I suppose that it is myriads of droplets of Xmicrons in diameter in a matrix of water vapor with a lifespan of some milliseconds.

2 --- will someone have a diagram (simplified) of a constant level valve (is it like the float system of a carburetor?). I need to understand how it works to find the equivalent here. Since heating valves are rare in Thailand and there are none in air conditioning !? Any idea what kind of device could use these valves ???


It works like a fuel. When the water level drops, the float and its needle drop, lets in the fleet which raises the float so closes the arrival. And off we go for a ride. : Mrgreen:

The only difference is the venting of the tank that you have to reconnect at the outlet of the reactor to balance the pressure.
Chui not at all sure that it is a good system, if the tank + reactor assembly is in slight overpressure, when the needle opens .... it will blow in the water inlet pipe instead of the let in .... with the vibrations of the pot and pressure variation in the reactor, it easily does anything except regulate the water level. : Mrgreen:
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
Angular stone
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 15
Registration: 09/04/09, 11:11




by Angular stone » 09/03/10, 09:25

hello everyone, the assembly of the reactor on the modified exhaust pipe is finished (finally!) but concerning the production of vapor I would need some clarifications on the part of the experts ...


Hello and well done for editing by chance would you have photos, it would not be bad

Point 1: The GVI is not a boiler, it is a heat exchanger, it produces more or less steam depending on the engine speed and therefore the speed and heat of the exhaust gases.

According to the dimensioning that you find on this site, this system makes it possible to produce steam between 90 ° C and 100 ° C but in volumes calibrated on the engine speed. This is what is most interesting with this system. On the other hand it is necessary that the mixture which passes dasn the reactor is more charged in ambient air you cannot make pass only these vapors resulting from the GV in the reactor, it is thus necessary to be able to divert the maximum of air towards the reactor. I left a post recently with some explanations. Then you enrich this air with the fear coming from the GV. It is interesting to make here an assembly with valves which allows to calibrate the different percentage of each product (Air and Steam) because I think that according to the vehicles and their use we can refine the settings by this means

Actually the steam coming out of the GVI is slightly under pressure. It may also happen that the same phenomenon occurs as in a coffee maker and a few drops can be ejected. It is necessary to provide these hoses or system to avoid these residues of water clogs your hoses or arrives in the reactor and then in the engine. In short, having it under pressure is interesting because it makes it easier to get to the reactor where it is really important to have a good vacuum to bring the vapors to the engine (see venturi system)

2 --- will someone have a diagram (simplified) of a constant level valve (is it like the float system of a carburetor?). I need to understand how it works to find the equivalent here. Since heating valves are rare in Thailand and there are none in air conditioning !? Any idea what kind of device could use these valves ???

By doing a recharge on the internet you will easily find a technical sheet and if you don't want to struggle I think you can easily buy it on the internet. By cons I think you can find it in Thailand because it is also used in the production of hot water get closer to a plumber he can inform you.

Here, hoping to have answered your questions a little, I wish you good luck in the continuation of your project.
0 x
Association for the Promotion and Development of Organic Building and Energy Management
yael
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 17
Registration: 02/02/10, 09:08
Location: northern thailand




by yael » 11/03/10, 07:20

thank you for your answers ca enlighten me ...
Regarding the bad results with bubblers rising to the boiling temperature, this would probably be due to the fact that the reactor is supplied with too "pure" wet steam.
0 x
Where there is a will there is way.
Or there is a will there is a way.
yael
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 17
Registration: 02/02/10, 09:08
Location: northern thailand




by yael » 11/03/10, 07:21

Let me explain:

With the bubbler, if I understood correctly it is the depression / aspiration coming from the reactor which forces the passage of ambient air through the water in the bubbler. (by a hose that plunges into the water)
But if the water boils, then the pressure due to the expansion of the gases formed will compensate for this vacuum / suction coming from the engine. (as in a pressure cooker, no gas comes in but when it boils we can see that there is a large flow of outgoing gas, gas exclusively from boiling !!!)
Therefore more (or very little) of ambient air passes through the air pipes of the bubbler, and the reactor sucks in very rich water vapor with suspended droplets, which would be wet steam. And very poor in ambient air.
What does not work well according to the experiments made ?!
0 x
Where there is a will there is way.

Or there is a will there is a way.
yael
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 17
Registration: 02/02/10, 09:08
Location: northern thailand




by yael » 11/03/10, 07:24

With GVI it would seem that what comes out is only steam (it is only connected to a liquid water hose, the ambient air does not enter it). But the difference with the bubbler, would be that the ambient air is added downstream of the production of steam by an air inlet valve between the GVI and the reactor
So on a GVI as I have seen we can adjust the richness of the WET VAPOR / AMBIENT AIR mixture.

What seems to work better doesn't it ?!
0 x
Where there is a will there is way.

Or there is a will there is a way.
yael
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 17
Registration: 02/02/10, 09:08
Location: northern thailand




by yael » 11/03/10, 07:26

My impressions would be that you have to produce humid steam by boiling conventional water and then add a certain amount of ambient air.
Dilutes some sort of wet steam.
And that producing steam in a "closed" container, under pressure therefore, would force the suction through the reactor, and would only be more efficient.
0 x
Where there is a will there is way.

Or there is a will there is a way.
yael
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 17
Registration: 02/02/10, 09:08
Location: northern thailand




by yael » 11/03/10, 07:27

Please tell me if I'm on the right "theoretical" track ??? !!!.

By cons, technically I can not find a high T * hose, only conventional fuel hoses, which withstands heat certainly but I fear that the gases at the outlet of the reactor is too hot for that ??? Has anyone tried?

See you. (': Idea:')




photo:
Image

PS: why couldn't I send my message at once ??? while cutting in 6 does it work? too heavy ?
0 x
Where there is a will there is way.

Or there is a will there is a way.
yael
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 17
Registration: 02/02/10, 09:08
Location: northern thailand




by yael » 11/03/10, 07:30

and before mounting ... it's more visible.

Image
0 x
Where there is a will there is way.

Or there is a will there is a way.
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14141
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 11/03/10, 21:53

Hello Yael
Yael wrote:Please tell me if I'm on the right "theoretical" track ??? !!!.

There are very different assemblies that work ..... from there to say you have to do absolutely that or that ????. You should rather provide for adjustment, to be able to vary the places where you introduce air. The ideal would be to be able to vary the quantity and temperature of the air that enters several different places, if the assembly is suitable. : Mrgreen:

By cons, technically I can not find a high T * hose, only conventional fuel hoses, which withstands heat certainly but I fear that the gases at the outlet of the reactor is too hot for that ??? Has anyone tried?


For the pipes, there are several schools. Those who put silicone hose (holds at 350 °), or who try to put a maximum of metal pipes (copper, stainless steel etc) and those who mix the two solutions.

A rubber hose too close to the reactor deteriorates rapidly (max 250 °?) Rather because of contact with the pot> 300 ° rather than contact with steam. The pipe boils under the Serflex collar and hardly anywhere else.

Well the reactor assembly! You can give us some dimensions, diameters, rod length, volumes etc ...

A+
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14141
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 11/03/10, 22:01

We do not see on the photo how you connected the exhaust pipes of cylinders 2 and 3 to the reactor. Single pipe, or separate?
A+
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Water injection in the engines: the assembly and experimentation"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 185 guests