Electrolysis and gas scooter

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
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nlc
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by nlc » 21/04/08, 14:31

abyssin3 wrote:
nlc wrote:He said that the water engine worked, I just asked if he saw one working. He says he is working on the subject, we just ask him to tell us more, that's all!

Take up the subject from the beginning, he told you that: yes, he had seen one work ...


Yes, I saw that he said yes, and?

abyssin3 wrote:Otherwise, concerning Alfwilly, whatever he may have said or written, it is difficult to say what he did or did not do concrete. . . without checking. For my part, I checked and if what he did did not revolutionize the world, certainly, it is still marketed and installed on several vehicles (and functional in addition).
Not everyone can brag about this.

PS: In this case, I do not think it is him on this subject elsewhere.

Ah well this is something interesting! Do you have any info on that or links?


Otherwise you absolutely must stop this sterile debate!

I am a concrete person, and I have an open source philosophy. I like sharing ideas, and team research.
But what inflates me is simply when someone says that something works, when he has nothing to show. Either because he has nothing to show, or because he doesn't want to show it ...
That's all !

And furthermore, we can be in good faith and say that it works, when in fact it works or it doesn't work. That is why we have to be rigorous and take measures.

We see too many things relayed on the internet that are given to walk, but which don't work
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jonule
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by jonule » 21/04/08, 14:33

ok nlc
but you can not say that meyer it does not work, after having done an electrolysis all that is most prehistoric without electronics anyway!
+ on petrol vehicle ...

by the way what does it give on 306 diesel?
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nlc
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by nlc » 21/04/08, 16:17

Well, let's go once and for all!

1) I find you really ironic and ... unnecessarily harsh in your words (nasty limit !?)

2) Did I say somewhere affirmatively that Meyer was not working?
No. I simply always clearly stated everything that I had noticed during my many hours of experimentation. Unlike many, I have always done my experiments by being as rigorous as possible, whether in setting up tests, or in measurements.

Contrary to what you may think, I didn't just focus on "prehistoric electrolyses without electronics" to use your words.
The electronics it is precisely my job figure you, and I also spent an incalculable number of hours to make tests of electrolyses managed electronically, with pulsed current / voltage in particular.

And it works ! Yes you read well, it works! Except that in all the tests I did, I could never do better than a simple prehistoric electrolysis.
It is for this simple and good reason that I never talked about all these tests on my site for example, because it has absolutely no interest, although there was still gas coming out of the electrolyser!

With all the hours of experience that I was able to do, I learned a lot of things that I relayed besides throughout the subject "improved electrolysis", in particular on the operation of a standard electrolysis, therefore in current mode .
If you have followed the subject from the start, you will see for yourself that I have never closed the door to the possibility of making surunity. I even managed to make it, but over a very short period of a few ms.

It was then, and after having understood that we cannot make faraday lie on standard electrolyses in current (even pulsed), that I explained what was, according to me, the only technique allowing to make permanent unit, or at least continue to improve performance.
Faraday never lying, even in pulsed mode (at the moment when the current passes), I concluded that to improve the yield, it was rather necessary to work on the reduction of the supply voltage.

I had noticed that at the very start of an electrolysis, when the electrodes are not yet covered with gas, a strong current can be passed through the electrodes even if the voltage is lower than the theoretical threshold voltage. (It is during this very short period that there is "overunit", because gas generation while the supply voltage is below the threshold voltage). This threshold voltage comes from the fact that once the electrodes are clogged with oxygen on one side, and hydrogen on the other, it behaves like a battery. To continue to circulate current in the electrolysis, the only solution is then to have a supply voltage greater than the voltage of the battery effect.

So to improve the efficiency of a current mode electrolysis, in my opinion the only solution is to succeed in passing the current under a lower voltage. And pulsed electrolysis could be a very good way to do it! I never denied it, that's why I actually digged the question a lot! Indeed, the goal would be that during the time or the current passes, we produce oxygen and hydrogen, but that they are evacuated from the plates during the time or the current does not pass. At the next ON time, we are left with less battery effect, which allows us to pass more current and at a lower voltage.
So I digged a lot this question there, made a lot of measurements (I'm pretty well equipped for that: power supply, digital oscilloscope, etc ...), but never I could not do better than the famous prehistoric electrolysis, for the simple reason that the OFF time of the pulsed current does not allow the gases to escape sufficiently for it to have an influence on the voltage of the battery effect. We have already exposed several techniques which could improve the pulsed electrolysis: to make so that the pulsation also makes vibrate the plates in resonance to try to release gases from the electrodes, to balance ultrasound to also take off the gas, to make circulate quickly a flow of electrolyte to extract the gas from the walls, etc.

So my conclusion on current mode electrolysis (pulsed or not), has always been to say that to increase the efficiency, you have to succeed in lowering the voltage, by reducing the battery effect. To lower the stack effect, there are not 36 solutions, it is imperative to get this fucking hydrogen and fucking oxygen out of the plates. Indeed, unfortunately Faraday never lies for electrolyses that run on current.

For the Meyer type electrolysis, which would seem to use another technique, namely the "cracking" of the water molecule by high voltage, I never said that it would never work. I myself made tests on it, and I even demonstrated (go see on the forum motor), digital oscillo curves to support, that we could actually manage to create strong overvoltages with a low voltage at the start and an LC resonance system.

Except that I did these tests with an air capacity (the 2 electrolysis plates but without water), and I showed that as soon as we put water, the most distilled is it, we have a resistance which prevents resonance and voltage build-up.
It is from there that I dropped the meyer tests because there is, in my opinion, something wrong with all his patents, or in any case it lacks elements, because it is impossible to have a sufficiently high resistance between the electrodes so that they can be considered as a perfect capacitor, and integrated into a resonant system allowing the voltage to be raised to several thousand volts.

I am still very close to what is done in the field, the only thing that bothers me is that I need more than "it works" to believe it. I like to understand things. I want it to work, but it takes more, in order to understand and make it reproducible. Or failing to understand, see exactly what is happening (abnormally high gas flow compared to the electrical consumption, etc ...)

Well, I hope things are clear now, and if you want more info, don't hesitate to ask!
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by nlc » 21/04/08, 16:20

jonule wrote:by the way what does it give on 306 diesel?


I was given the reactor last Friday that I had loaned to a former intern who demonstrated at Science Days.

I have to clean it well, I have to redo another control electronics (current limitation by pulsed current precisely ...), and above all that I ask permission from the stepfather (there should not be any problem) because it's his car, not mine : Mrgreen:
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by jonule » 21/04/08, 16:28

sorry if you took it for you nlc it was not the case THAT for you but a general attitude to meyer on this forum, of which elephant is also a part, and others here.
do not take it ironic or nasty let's see it's ridiculous, it's just to defend the new ones and give them a chance voila everything otherwise they will point and zouuuu ...
it should not be taken badly it must be understood for those who arrive and who will try something else to advance the subject!

it is a pity that the high voltage was not retained in the experiments, the microwaves, the resonance frequency of the water, the tesla switch system etc ...

good experiments to all then 8)
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by abyssin3 » 21/04/08, 16:40

nlc wrote:Ah well this is something interesting! Do you have any info on that or links

My answer is the same as on the other forum months ago (it didn't move anyone): ask him directly (email or phone). This is what I did, a long time ago.
Now links: none because he has not made a site to my knowledge.
Info, of course (not masses, we just talked for half an hour), but I'm not going to stick a knife in his back, he's had enough like that.
Third, "Do you have any info on that or any links": minute! I'm not his secretary in Alfwilly and I've got other things to do. If you want info, pick up your phone, it's that easy. And in my opinion you would be more in the know (without playing on words) than me to understand what he is talking about: electronics, it's not my cup of tea ...
Last edited by abyssin3 the 21 / 04 / 08, 16: 48, 1 edited once.
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by nlc » 21/04/08, 16:45

Obviously I took it for myself, since it was I who answered the subject ...

Of all that I have seen in any case, on the subject improved electrolysis in any case, nobody says that a Meyer electrolysis for example has no chance of working.

In general, the general attitude of which you speak often concerns people who have really done tests and measurements, and who therefore know what they are talking about.

We just say that to say that it works is fine, but that we have to support a little bit the statements, otherwise it's too easy ...
Very often the people who say that are in good faith, but that is not enough, it is enough to be convinced of it to look at the number of sites which relay claims and phony schemes that do not work.

Then someone does the editing, feeds it, there are 3 bubbles coming out so says that it works, and so on. It's not serious, that's all "we" try to say, because we broke our ass for hours doing serious tests which show that in the current state of things electrolysis prehistoric at a better yield.

But we only ask to discover the opposite, or even help with development, it is obvious, but it takes more than a simple "it works", it is still not complicated to understand !!

To conclude: A "it works" is good, but it doesn't move things forward
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by nlc » 21/04/08, 16:51

Abyssinian: I don't even know what to answer, I'm on my ass.
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by Remundo » 21/04/08, 17:15

Hello everyone,

Well, it's lively here!

All I need is to connect Jonule to Meyer or nuclear power and it's electronic warfare : Cheesy:

Relax guys 8)

I did not know Nlc, that you touched your ball well in electricity and hydrolysis ... I suspected it a little with your achievements of scooter / bicycle.

Good luck to all in your research and coooooloolll :D
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by tome » 21/04/08, 18:36

Remundo wrote:
I did not know Nlc, that you touched your ball well in electricity and hydrolysis ... I suspected it a little with your achievements of scooter / bicycle.



I can even say that the experiments carried out by nlc are of very good quality.
I often visit his site, everything is well explained, he is a good handyman who has the idea 8)
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