The death of bees puts the world in danger

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Ahmed
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by Ahmed » 17/10/18, 12:57

We can distinguish in this article many of the dogmas which he claims to criticize. It is useful for this purpose to understand the Orwellian nov'langue: here is a small example of decryption.
It is written:
Consequence: they are much less protected than Apis mellifera.

It should be read: the industrial exploitation (and not the "protection") of bees for extractivist purposes generates negative externalities on the environment and the ecosystem, in particular with regard to other pollinating insects or not, but amateurs of nectar and / or pollen. This is obviously not a scoop, since it is the general case of any industrial activity.
On the other hand and since we are talking about it, the industrialization of agriculture, the massive use of chemistry have drastically reduced the biodiversity of the flora as much as its extent ... which is fully compatible with the narcissistic utilitarianism which is the rule and therefore constitutes the problem.
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by Christophe » 17/10/18, 13:19

Ahmed who decrypts :)

J'adore! : Cheesy:
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by Ahmed » 17/10/18, 15:19

If you encourage me ...! 8)
To dig a little deeper into this theme of "protection" which in reality only protects our bad conscience from the positive effects of lucidity, we must understand the paradox it conceals. There is in this concept of protection of nature or of its non-human inhabitants an obvious presumption, insofar as if it, or they, come to need this assistant which is more akin to the "pavement de l 'bear "* that to genuine help, it is only because all our efforts tend to exterminate it.
To get out of this deplorable, but common misconception of thought, we must ask the simple question: how would birds, insects, plants need me and if so what could I do for them? The truth is that not only does nature in all its aspects have no need of us, but that it would be much better if this annoying Judeo-Christian narcissism did not push us to enslave it, to force it to in every possible way * and with a scale never seen before in the history of mankind.

I would obviously not push the reasoning to its final stage, for fear of a wave of untimely suicide among the most respectful of the lives of other species, which would be downright counterproductive! : Lol:

* See the works of Bernard Charbonneau.
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by Janic » 17/10/18, 17:14

but that it would be much better if this annoying Judeo-Christian narcissism
:?: :?: :?:
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by Christophe » 17/10/18, 17:29

Oops you talked about religion ... : Cheesy:
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by Ahmed » 17/10/18, 19:30

Not serious! : Cheesy:
Mainly in the OT it is clearly specified that God made man in his image and that, roughly, he put the rest of the creation at his disposal: it is even an interesting offer and that is cut on measured! :D
Some theologians, if I remember correctly, evoke a more subtle interpretation, considering that creation is unfinished and that its continuation would be entrusted to man, which in passing solves some problems at the level of freedom versus determinism; it's a very interesting version, but guess which one prevailed? : Wink:
In the NT, Jesus does not make much of animals and the only major Christian figure to care about them is St Francis of Assizes...
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by sen-no-sen » 17/10/18, 20:57

Christophe wrote:Oops you talked about religion ... : Cheesy:


Fatal error! : Lol:

Ahmed wrote:Mainly in the OT it is clearly specified that God made man in his image and that, roughly, he put the rest of the creation at his disposal: it is even an interesting offer and that is cut on measured!


Genesis 1: 28:
God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subjugate it; and dominate over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every animal that moves on the earth.

To avoid any error of interpretation it is necessary to translate this sentence from the point of view of memetics: God is an anthropomorphic concept that symbolizes uniqueness within a cultural field,it's a master meme.
In other words, a guiding thought which structures groups of human beings so that they accomplish their missions: dissipating energy by forming increasingly large groups.
This concept obviously obeys the principles of thermodynamics, it is for this reason that there is question of fertility and multiplication (principle of saturation).

This should not be seen as an ideology of brutality towards nature as is often repeated in certain circles (such as animal rights eg).
It is in fact a strategy allowing the proliferation of Memes: the more populations multiply and the more there is a large number of brains to "colonize," this therefore requires an invasion of the territories which must not be stopped by any empathy towards other hosts (animals) not conducive to dissipation .
We thus find in many religions teachings promoting memetic dissipation as well as others serving as firewalls* to competing ideas.

In the NT, Jesus does not make much of animals and the only major Christian figure to be concerned about it is St Francis of Assizes ...

Jesus Christ appears during a period of trouble, a period which was not specifically conducive to animal protection, moreover the world population was probably not to exceed 300 million inhabitants, the damage to the environment was compared to the current "anecdotal" situation.


* Like teaching that the faithful who would turn away from the teachings would be tormenting for eternity or that the people coming to question the teachings would be envoys of the devil ...
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by Ahmed » 17/10/18, 21:27

Well agree with the thermodynamic interpretation.
You write:
This should not be seen as an ideology of brutality towards nature as is often repeated in certain circles (such as animalists for example).

Of course, the consequences are indirect, but they are there. Dissipating a maximum of energy over as wide a territory as possible can only work to the detriment of other living organisms. The best proof of this is the current result, where there is incredible violence against the living.
In addition, it should be noted that many companies have not complied with this rule, but being non-destructive, they have gone unnoticed ...
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by sen-no-sen » 17/10/18, 21:59

Ahmed wrote:Of course, the consequences are indirect, but they are there. Dissipating a maximum of energy over as wide a territory as possible can only work to the detriment of other living organisms. The best proof of this is the current result, where there is incredible violence against the living.


Obviously! However, religions should not be incriminated.
There are two ways of looking at it: either those are the humans who make history via their "free will" ... or it is the determinisms and the processes which make the humans and ... the history by extension .
I obviously favor the second point of view.
Consequently, we can consider religions as the consequence of a "physico-sociological" process and absolutely not as resulting from the "fault" of humans.

If you monotheism appeared it is not due to any demiurgic will but as a consequence of a memetic evolution produced during antiquity, fruit of a long maturation (animism : Arrow: polytheism : Arrow: monolatry and finally monotheism).
Le monotheism is for selection K what animism is for selection r: an effect of energy fluctuations within human societies. It is therefore difficult to impute a "responsibility" in the sense that his thought systems are the result of an adaptation to environmental evolution.


Well, you will tell me that this does not change much to our problem since it is systematically the first interpretation that is taken into account: humans make history ... of this error of reasoning born of terrible "disappointments"!
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Re: The death of bees puts the planet in danger




by Ahmed » 17/10/18, 22:06

Of course! I am sorry if this interpretation prevailed in my previous message and thank you for allowing me to rectify this possible misunderstanding. It is obvious that religions have only brought an envelope to these determinisms, just as science then does in a new form, even better suited to the unleashing of destructive forces.
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