To make fewer children: the new green gesture?

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sen-no-sen
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To make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by sen-no-sen » 22/10/18, 11:03

A short program on the notion of dénatalisme,new green gesture?



We see briefly appear Yves Cochet who like all good "ecologists" to still miss an opportunity to be silent ... : Lol:

Before going further in the analysis ... what do you think?
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by izentrop » 22/10/18, 14:49

This is not really the problem in France but in some countries where resources are too limited or at war.

Yves Cochet must think about the few families who are hunting subsidies.
We saw that imposing a limitation, as it was done in China generates perverse effects and no matter how in the rest of the world, people have reduced their demographics for economic reasons and lifestyle choices.

And then we should tackle the real problems like reducing meat consumption globally.
A generalized vegetarian diet, without being imposed, could be able to feed at least 12 billions of human beings ...
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Ahmed » 22/10/18, 15:53

A slogan for Yves Cochet: "one child is fine, two children is fine, three children, hello damage!" : Lol:

Izentrop, you write:
This is not really the problem in France, but in some countries where resources are too limited or at war.

Do you work in small waterproof boxes * or what? We live largely to the detriment of others, which assures us a large provisional material welfare and as for the war, we largely accomplish our part in the hunt for the poor of the countries of the periphery ...
It is in the "developed" countries ** that the greatest demographic pressure is found, reduced to nuisance per capita.

Further:
And then, we should tackle the real problems, such as reducing meat consumption globally.

That would be a good thing, but if it is the condition of a demographic expansion, the gain will be quickly canceled. Only a global vision matters ..., but you did not say that you were against! 8)

* Forgive me for being so abrupt, but I have the impression that it is a frequent mode of operation and by dint of bumping into it, it irritates me ... :frown:
** It would be more appropriate to speak of extractivist countries.
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Ahmed » 22/10/18, 16:13

I would like to try to bring some elements of answer to Sen-no-sen.
There are various ways to approach things. On the issue of responsibility towards her offspring, she is no less than that towards the others, but obviously, the feeling is different. On the one hand, the demographic limitation is unavoidable and therefore does not depend solely on personal choice, as suggested by Poelvoorde: this is only one facet of the narcissism of capitalism, on the other hand, conversely, if we push the reasoning to the extreme, suicide seems to me a particularly recommendable option ... : Wink:
On the whole, it seems to me that this attitude, even if the explanation is not univocal, denotes a resignation in the face of the disaster and I think that this seems to exclude any possibility of action, even symbolic, which is perhaps to be give up a little fast ...
The question of responsibility and therefore of the latent guilt would probably find a beginning of answer in a reflection / action against what this couple dreads ...
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by sen-no-sen » 22/10/18, 16:22

Le dénatalisme made in France is an absurdity, for two main reasons:
1) Demography in France and more widely in Europe is between 1 and 2 children per woman.
Some numbers: France 1,90, United Kingdom 1,80 ,, Russia 1,75, Germany 1,50*, Hungary 1,45,, Italy 1,35 ... Spain 1,33 ...

The observation is simple, we are at the European level in birth deficit ... the remark of Y.Cochet is therefore obsolete.

2) Limiting the number of births for reasons of environmental impact is still an erroneous vision not to say insane in the sense that it is not the human who is directly responsible for the natural modifications but the technologies that he use, the nuance is astronomical.
So rather than considering a profound transformation of our relationship to nature through economic decline, it would be a question of reducing the number of living people to continue in the worst. We imagine that automation will provide need an aging population.

In reality, the number of children per woman is correlated with the degree of energy dissipation in the first place (r / K strategy) then once the transition started inflected or augmented by economic processes.


*Which explains the rise of humanism of Madame Merkel towards migrants and refugees ...
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Ahmed » 22/10/18, 17:23

The birth deficit is only a calculation on a given situation, it indicates nothing, in itself, of what would be desirable.
Then, if one assumes the empowerment of technology *, the preponderance of its responsibility would be recorded, yet, for the moment, it is the relationship between the number of humans correlated with the factor. nuisance that excites predatory technology: the fact that the action is actually indirect does not change that much.

* And, in this case, the denatalist sentiment would be perfectly in phase with the phenomenon.
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Janic » 22/10/18, 19:22

Do you work in small waterproof boxes * or what?
* Forgive me for being so abrupt, but I have the impression that it is a frequent mode of operation and by dint of bumping into it, it irritates me ...
Well, I see that I am not the only one to have noticed it! : Cheesy:
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by sen-no-sen » 22/10/18, 19:52

Ahmed wrote:The birth deficit is only a calculation on a given situation, it indicates nothing, in itself, of what would be desirable.


It is indeed only an indicator, globally the desire to counter the birth deficit, via immigration or policies natalist aims only one goal: to increase the volume of consumers.
However, this reasoning cannot be extrapolated indefinitely, passing a threshold, the system "leaps above itself" by inducing new strategies.

it is the ratio between the number of humans correlated to the nuisance factor that excites predatory technology:


The more the technology spreads, the more it induces subjectivation and individualistic behavior, which is why we see a decline in the birth rate and new reproductive behaviors: homosexual couples or heterosexual single mothers having recourse IVF (despite lack of infertility).
If the technology guaranteed is advent by the quantitative, it is now through subtlety that it acts.
The transhumanist current will apparently not see the light of day in Niger but rather within a post-modern "family" structure.
We have to do to a kind of two-stroke waltz: mass birth in poor peripheral countries serving as reserve army for the production of abstract values, and transformation of family structure in the industrialized countries of the first hours aimed at the emergence of an evolution of the human race through technology.
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Janic » 22/10/18, 20:51

Unfortunately infertility is one of the new plagues of the 21st century and more and more couples are affected each year.
Here are some figures on infertility.


200 000: Here is a number that will give hope to all couples currently having problems procreate. Since the beginning of the Medical Aid to the Procreation (AMP) until the end 2008, one counts in France 200 000 children conceived by In Vitro fertilization (FIV), a figure in constant increase.

6 month: This is the average time for a spontaneous pregnancy to appear during a child's desire.

33%: This is the percentage of female infertility. This infertility is often related to ovulation disorders or tubal problems (tubal infertility).

20%: This is the percentage of male infertility. That is to say the cases where only the man has worries. See "Causes of Infertility in Men".

40%: This is the percentage of mixed infertility. In these cases, doctors detect a problem in both men and women. Both undergo medical treatments, and very often this infertility results in IVF.

And finally 10%: This figure corresponds to unexplained infertility. Unfortunately, there are cases where infertility cannot be explained. All is well with men and women and yet no embryos implant in the mother's uterus. It should also be noted that this type of infertility increases with age and becomes "more frequent" after 35 years.

http://www.bebe-ange.com/conception-fer ... lques.html
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by sen-no-sen » 22/10/18, 21:08

Janic wrote:Unfortunately infertility is one of the new plagues of the 21st century and more and more couples are affected each year.
.


Infertility has many reasons among which can be mentioned the decline in the age of the first child (the average of the first child went from 28 years now against 24 1974), the spread of endocrine disruptors, hormonal pollutants and Abuse of contraception.
This infertility fits perfectly into the process of technologization of the world, reproduction, the fundamental act of becoming a species, is gradually going to require an increasingly important technical deployment, the consequence of the saturation of technology in our lives.
If the trend continues we should arrive one day at a stage where the children will be born in machines (ectogenesis), if this may seem at first sight to be a sci-fi nightmare worthy of the best of all worlds, it appears that there exists nowadays an ideological arsenal allowing the implementation of this finality *.


* Read the following article on this topic:https://www.causeur.fr/reproduction-feminisme-pma-gpa-sastre-144768
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