To make fewer children: the new green gesture?

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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by izentrop » 23/10/18, 00:52

Ahmed wrote:Do you work in small waterproof boxes * or what?
I'm losing more and more, boxes, but I do not see where you are coming from, because my perhaps ill-formulated words were identical to:
sen-no-sen wrote:The observation is simple, we are at the European level in birth deficit ...
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Janic » 23/10/18, 09:00

Infertility has many reasons among which can be mentioned the decline in the age of the first child (the average of the first child went from 28 years now against 24 1974), the spread of endocrine disruptors, hormonal pollutants and Abuse of contraception.
24 / 28 years are not canonical ages so far and the possibility of having 1.8 children before menopause that leaves a wide margin for that; this is not the criterion to remember. By cons the rest: yes! chemicals of all kinds disrupt the normal functioning of living organisms and are more than likely the cause.
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Ahmed » 23/10/18, 11:36

Izentrop: yes, whatever the formulation or the formulator, I find that the chosen scale is not relevant, that's just what I meant. Sometimes, as here, because it is too small to be meaningful in the context of a specific questioning, sometimes, on the contrary, it can be too encompassing, as is the case most of the time when a sentence like by "humanity is ...: reducing different elements under the same term is as misleading as considering elements (boxes) in isolation (which can be understood for methodological reasons) without considering the relationships that unite them and make sense .

Infertility is a very important aspect of the initial question, since it does not fall under the voluntary act of renunciation of procreation. : Lol: It is interesting, however, in connection with the following remarks.

I would like to emphasize a point raised in the previous messages: machines are not autonomous with respect to their user, at least not really yet, what is autonomous is the technology understood as a system: it then imposes itself externally, resulting in a dependence, a heteronomy of those who thought to free themselves from the usual physical constraints: there was a reversal of the roles because of the progressive saturation of the machines and the correlative decay of the natural environment. As rightly noted Sen-no-senthe technicological sphere is antagonistic to nature in the broadest sense.
Although in my opinion, as I have already said, there is a certain correlation between population and the destruction of nature, I am very close to your opinion, Sen-no-sen, insofar as I weight it with the "nuisance factor" * which, for its part, depends on the level of technological recourse of each one: thus a demographic decrease within a very "technologized" country would not be effectively synonymous with less ecological footprint si technological capacity per capita increased to the extent that it would more than offset a decrease in

* That one could as well call "technological factor".
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by sen-no-sen » 23/10/18, 12:38

To return to the notion of birth deficit, it must be understood that this deficit is relative to the maintenance of a given population with regard to an economic vision.
From a naturalistic point of view there is no birth deficit in France, the birth rate largely allows the survival of the French.
On the other hand, from a demographic point of view, we are moving towards stagnation and then towards a decrease in the population, this is not dangerous in itself biologically, but the question worries economists, because fewer births means fewer consumers. and less savers!
It is also on this last point that the voters of the extreme right bump: immigration is a way to keep the population on the rise.Hors given that its political parties do not want immigration while wanting to maintain growth, it inevitably faces a dilemma, because there is little to expect from birth rates.

Ahmed wrote:Infertility is a very important aspect of the initial question, since it does not fall under the voluntary act of renunciation of procreation.


Although apparently unrelated, there is a causal link between the dénatalisme and infertility, it is about two processes induced by the same phenomenon: the increase of the degree of the dissipation of energy.
If infertility is a health problem, statistical or even natural * it is always because of the sudden increase in standards of living via industrialization and its corollary: the sudden change in equilibrium.
Le dénatalisme is only the memetic counterpart of its modifications, resulting from the modification of psychisms with regard to the induced transformations.
Pessimo-realist that I am I do not believe in the thesis of the voluntary choice not to have children, but rather to the action of determinism programming individuals not to have any.Historically may have very well demonstrated this phenomenon.



(1) It can not be excluded that some cases of infertility are of natural origin, as in rats.
Some scientists believe that homosexual behavior would be part of evolutionary mechanisms to limit births.
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Ahmed » 23/10/18, 18:59

We agree, it is only from the privileged angle that the formulation diverges: thus, the "voluntary" side of denatalism only expresses the fact that the determinism is expressed or not in such and such. such person.
Likewise on the question of "optimal" population in France, the answer will depend on the criterion chosen.
As for the far-right parties, their positions are not so certain and can be reconfigured according to what it is possible to "sell" at the local level: thus, in PACA, the elected members of the Front National encourage immigration swarthy workers (sic) to provide cheap labor to their clientele of greenhouse growers ...
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by sen-no-sen » 23/10/18, 20:45

Ahmed wrote:Likewise on the question of "optimal" population in France, the answer will depend on the criterion chosen.


If we take the ratio prey / predator and in view of natural balances I would say there are 66 million inhabitants in excess in our country! : Lol:

thus, the "voluntary" side of denatalism only expresses the fact that determinism is expressed or not in such and such a person.


Le dénatalisme appears as for many contemporary movements of the genre (veganism and others) in the circles of the urban petty bourgeoisie.
This is a strict result of the selection K to apply to the reproductive strategy. In a highly industrialized society this results in a rise of individualism.
As had explained it Susan Blackmore, to make children and a genetic selfishness (= to favor the durability of the genes), not to do it is a memetic egoism (to favor the dissipation of the memes and the predominance of the ego).
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Ahmed » 23/10/18, 22:32

Sen-no-sen, you write:
If we take the ratio prey / predator and in view of natural balances, I would say that there is 66 million inhabitants in excess in our country! : Lol:

It was a little sense of my remark! Thank you for having developed it ... :D
It would be nice if you could do the same on the difference between genetic egoism (easy to understand) and memetic egoism and narcissism (much darker) ...
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by sen-no-sen » 23/10/18, 23:58

Ahmed wrote:It would be nice if you could do the same on the difference between genetic egoism (easy to understand) and memetic egoism and narcissism (much darker) ...


Genetic propagation allows the survival of the line, ie the transfer of genes in space time.
As for memes the principle is identical, except that the host will allocate more time for the dissipation of ideas rather than that of its genes.
It is for this reason that there is a decline in the birth rate in the industrialized countries, couples favor their people rather than the spread of their lineage given the very high level of survival of their offspring.
To push to paroxysm the memetic predominance ends up considerably reducing the will of genetic propagation.
This is one of the reasons that led the Catholic Church to establish the celibacy of the priests (in 1123): the objective was to manufacture agents renouncing their genetic propagation so that it is devoted entirely to their tasks propagator of ideas.
The same remark can be made concerning a growing number of agents in the system: favoring their careers rather than their lineages *.
Insofar as the ideas base the short(all of the ideas that colonize the psyche coupled with the ego) can understand the relationship between memetic egoism and narcissism.
The cult of the self is thus induced by the technological transformations and sees the refusal of death appearing with the consequence of the development of an arsenal aiming at repelling this one ... put end to end this favors to turn back-actions allowing to technology to colonize the last blank space: the human body.



*For exemple E.Macron,Merkel,Theresa May,Paolo Gentiloni, or Jean-Claude Juncker do not have children ...
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Remundo » 24/10/18, 02:58

sen-no-sen wrote:A short program on the notion of dénatalisme,new green gesture?



We see briefly appear Yves Cochet who like all good "ecologists" to still miss an opportunity to be silent ... : Lol:

Before going further in the analysis ... what do you think?

the speech of these two lights is only a little beer.

I personally advocate suicidism, and even the ultimate destructivism of all forms of human life.

in the meantime, let them stop breathing, because you must not laugh, CO2 is a GHG. Their simple breath is endangering the planet!
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Re: Make fewer children: the new green gesture?




by Janic » 24/10/18, 10:20

because you must not laugh, the CO2 is a GHG. Their simple breath is endangering the planet
however, the largest producer of GHG remains livestock and it is not about to decline given the global demand. : Cry:
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