My kitchen garden of the least effort

[Did67]

Now (unless I have missed something of the style: "you inflate me adios") and for having already lived it there are sometimes unfortunate chances.

I did not look for the passage, but it seems to me that there was something like that ...

[Moindreffor]

Now (unless I have missed something of the style: "you inflate me adios") and for having already lived it there are sometimes unfortunate chances.

I did not look for the passage, but it seems to me that there was something like that ...

from memory it was about bokashi, if I remember correctly, Paysan.bio found it very useful, he spoke about it in another thread or on his blog, and Didier responding to another post wrote " all that is useless ”(without specifying the“ that ”) and paysan.bion took for himself that all the optimizations he brought were useless, Didier not looking for optimization but laziness, the 2 points of view were then fatally contradictory
pity me with my 32m² the optimizations of paysan.bio interested me, I did not make the effort to look for it elsewhere in other threads

otherwise I had news of sicetaitsisimple, very busy, on his side, so he (she) will come back

as we say above, I think we must file a little ego when we go on a forumI have often experienced it, let it settle and some come to my senses.

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

Now (unless I have missed something of the style: "you inflate me adios") and for having already lived it there are sometimes unfortunate chances.

I did not look for the passage, but it seems to me that there was something like that ...

from memory it was about bokashi, if I remember correctly, Paysan.bio found it very useful, he spoke about it in another thread or on his blog, and Didier responding to another post wrote " all that is useless ”(without specifying the“ that ”) and paysan.bion took for himself that all the optimizations he brought were useless, Didier not looking for optimization but laziness, the 2 points of view were then fatally contradictory
pity me with my 32m² the optimizations of paysan.bio interested me, I did not make the effort to look for it elsewhere in other threads

otherwise I had news of sicetaitsisimple, very busy, on his side, so he (she) will come back

as we say above, I think we must file a little ego when we go on a forumI have often experienced it, let it settle and some come to my senses.

Written discussions are absolute pitfalls for many reasons.

In addition I resume my idea of ​​groups.

If we were millions my faith 2 groups of 50 millions it does not eat bread

But as we are clearly in the minority (for the moment) in our approach to market gardening divide or quibble us does not make much sense.

That the guy cultivates by incantations, with the moon, the stars, the horoscope of his sister-in-law or the runes I do not care about him as long as he does not cultivate by swaying toxic substances and that he respects the ground and the surrounding nature (to make it simple)

For me the essential is reached.

[Did67]

Where, conversely, I was in a position to want to convince that without doing much, we could produce a lot. Which is nevertheless the raison d'être of the thread on the Potager du Laesseux! I admit that in the face of the fashion for "permacultural" threads, I don't think I will lead to the extinction of these other approaches. Which don't seem like "vanishing thoughts" to me. [They will be, later, because the system has such intrinsic flaws - very low productivity of labor - and that like any fad, it will pass, it is characteristic of fashions).

I remain convinced of the fact that "substituting" an approach where "man brings happiness to his garden" instead of "making life easier for soil organisms which do so more naturally than him" harbors traps ... The " bio "is the example which shows that we have not changed the paradigm (the way of seeing things). We have changed the means we use (we have replaced synthetic products by natural products, some of which are found to have very negative effects, and by more tillage). From my point of view, we got trapped, because we did not push logic to the end, in all coherence. We stayed in the middle of the ford. No wonder we have wet feet!

So it is true that I react, sometimes quickly and too brutally I admitted, to these approaches (whose hydroponics in glass towers under artificial lighting in the city are another avatar, dead born - where will it take is all this energy when the price of it has flamed? Except, of course, if the EPR are successful, and ITER prosperous).

But by reading the thread, remember that initially, I was completely unknown. And that I had to box a little to hear me. Finally, that's how I reacted. There might be other possible ways ???? I do not know. This is the one I chose. Without refélchir. With his doses of provocations. Intolerance sometimes, no doubt, too. We discuss there a posteriori. We are always smarter.

So yes, I do not let the merino piss ... And I can be brittle. In the mass of my reactions, there is inevitably waste.

I will close this debate because I think I have been honest with you.

Nothing says that paysan.bio left because he did not find here the audience or the "followers" that he hoped for ?? Maybe he thought to convert me to his vision of things ??? While it was said by Moindreffor: our goal and our paradigm (our way of seeing things) were not the same ...

[Moindreffor]

so we agree
do not look for what we do not need to find

everything is in the title, the kitchen garden lazy, this adjective summarizes alone, the objective, with hindsight, Didier has now experimented a lot of things, he will experiment many others, but still keeping the goal starting, minimal work, sometimes it works, sometimes no, keep what works, explore other leads for the rest

I have been claiming for years as being in favor of the slightest effort, how to do the same by spending as little energy as possible, it was my slogan already the year of my baccalaureate. I will say that it's a little what saved me when I got sick, when you have almost no energy either you do not do anything, or you find how to do without, that's also why I feel so in sync with Didier's way of thinking, we are on the same wavelength (at least that's how I feel, Didier will contradict me if necessary)

so embarrassing me with useless things is very difficult for me, that's why I sometimes react excessively when I'm offered a video, so-called interesting, where I do not learn anything, I have to be selective

The book of Didier is great in this sense because it includes everything that can contain this thread, I read the whole thread, it took me time, after I read the book, it took me less time, and I did not find anything, it was simply much clearer, but thanks to that I know what to do and know why I observe this or that thing in my kitchen garden, Didier gave me the bases sufficient to set up my vegetable garden lazy, the least effort, thanks to what he taught me, I will have a soil very quickly, where what I put in the ground will develop

Man was a harvester, nature took care of cultivating, he necessarily destroyed nature to cultivate in his place, with the return to a respect of the soil, I hope to become a sower-gatherer (I speak of respect for the soil and not phenoculture, because everyone will have understood that the use of hay is the most lazy possible, but that we can achieve the same result with other solutions)

[Ahmed]

Moindreffor: about your last paragraph, the little we know about our Paleolithic ancestors (few, because it's an extremely long period), we talk about hunter-gatherers (as you know) and, regarding the harvester side , it is quite possible that it was more the fact of women (+ children and old). What is important is that the move to the farmer-rancher stage has resulted in a decrease in size, robustness, some physical traits and new pathologies that have resulted in a decrease in maximum life (even if the average lifespan, excluding juveniles, probably increased [fewer hunting accidents, but no more armed conflict] Another trait was also the increase in fertility (the sedentarisation allowed to raise several young children at the same time time and complementary animal milk also helped.) These symptoms are those of domestication, in this case, here, self-domestication.

[Moindreffor]

Moindreffor: about your last paragraph, the little we know about our Paleolithic ancestors (few, because it's an extremely long period), we talk about hunter-gatherers (as you know) and, regarding the harvester side , it is quite possible that it was more the fact of women (+ children and old). What is important is that the move to the farmer-rancher stage has resulted in a decrease in size, robustness, some physical traits and new pathologies that have resulted in a decrease in maximum life (even if the average lifespan, excluding juveniles, probably increased [fewer hunting accidents, but no more armed conflict] Another trait was also the increase in fertility (the sedentarisation allowed to raise several young children at the same time time and complementary animal milk also helped.) These symptoms are those of domestication, in this case, here, self-domestication.

I was more on the fact that uncultivated nature walked by itself, and that the Man with an "H", could find what he needed, only had to reach out when we change our way of life, we have gains and losses, we also have to change our way of society, sedentarisation has also allowed to develop crafts, mutual aid, collective and specialized work

by giving back the first role to nature, I hope and I am sure of the views of my first results, that I will have to reach also to deposit my seeds, my plants, and to harvest

[Ahmed]

I understood the meaning of your message and mine was simply a complement. We are indeed in the case of a (very!) Approximate synthesis between the Paleolithic and Neolithic exploitation mode .

Your last message calls for another remark (I am incorrigible, as you know it ) : you write:

the sedentarisation has also allowed to develop the craft, the mutual aid, the collective and specialized work.

As groups practicing big game hunting, the entire lineage, very long, of pre-Neolithic hominids had to rely above all on unfailing solidarity (one of the consequences of which was the sharing of the catch among all) and perfect coordination of hunting tactics (quite risky!), hence certainly the evolution of language and in fine, association with wolves (domestication => dog).
I also think that increasing the specialization of tasks goes against mutual aid; last point, you use the word "work" which is a completely anachronistic concept for hunter-gatherers and should be used with great care in the case of the first farmer-herders, even if, in the latter case, it acquires significantly more substance.
To go in your direction (and that of the demiurgic initiative of Did!), the myth of the Garden of Eden retranscribes this passage from the era of abundance to that of pain: I obviously hope that this trend can be reversed a little!

[Did67]

(and that of the demiurgic initiative of Did!), ...

Demiurgical? Just that ?

Half an emergency ???

Research done (I like the precise language, I like to learn ...), it seems a little excessive!

[half-sister: Literary. Person who creates something important.(Larousse online)

[Ahmed]

The return to the Garden of Eden deserves this qualifier!