The lazy garden made in northern Elsass

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Ahmed
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Ahmed » 10/05/18, 12:49

Did, you write:
We are satisfied with a kind of "moss" that catches the eye, the surface loose earth ... If it is not being naive, that?

A milling process that breaks up the soil and prepares the regrowth (battance) at the first rain ...
You are right to point out that the plow can happen because of rotating tools, under certain conditions (especially in clay soil and not wiped). This is one of the reasons for the development of rotary harrows (or the same kind) that avoid the use of horizontal axes of rotation.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 10/05/18, 14:26

We fully agree. Noting that in market gardening, rotary tools with vertical axes, which are too complex, have not developed. We stayed with variants of "strawberries", which smooth ...
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Julienmos » 10/05/18, 15:09

Did67 wrote:this kind of contradiction between a very superficial work especially in the vegetable garden where a tiller rarely goes beyond 15 cm and the rooting depth of vegetables ...


OK for "fine" roots, but for some vegetables, their fleshy part (eg carrot) must still have a minimum of space?
So in the first place do not over tighten (carrots), and soil not too compact 15 cm, it must also help, in any case at home they have forked well two years ago (I posted a photo ) but very much less last year when I had fanged the ranks, before sowing ...

The turnips, beets ... cons, do not require any precaution and grow very well at home.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 10/05/18, 16:34

Yes, the general principle may be to qualify for some special cases ... It is obvious that the concern of the living is not to have straight carrots of commercial form. A forked carrot fulfills the same biological role in the ecosystem; it is the same stock of biomass to make a beautiful flower the year after (because that's the biological role).

I realize that it is not the French administration which invented the "exceptions" and that even nature does not stop exploring "other" avenues, sometimes against the grain of the rest.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by torrent sites » 10/05/18, 21:12

Generally I loosen up with a hook on less than 10cm for all the vegetables: basically I have to manage to bury the plants in pots that I transplant up to the crown. Loosening is a bit of a stretch -> it's not semolina either.

I do the same for the root vegetables (carrots, parsnips and whatnot). My land is a so-called heavy land. Generally I do not have too many "concerns" of forked vegetables (when I loosen I remove all the stones that I come across).
Some parsnip last year far exceeded the depth of my spade fork and the spikes went sneaking straight into the yellow clay underneath. The carrots were also of reasonable size and of honorable form last year.
Parsnips resided on their own, so I did not work at all the land at this location and the results were very satisfying too.

I do not have the rigor to do the tests to be able to draw conclusions according to the method Didier (sorry I do not have the exact term in mind), but I guess it is not the texture of the earth that can be problematic.
In addition, when the soil is loosened very finely over 15cm with a "traditional market gardening" tiller, by the time the seed rises and begins to grow, the rains have already recompacted almost everything.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by olivier75 » 10/05/18, 22:09

Hi,

Totally agree with torrent.
Last year the carrots sown in the spring between the garlic, with just a passage of breeze break, is barely 2 or 3 cm, just enough to bury the seeds. There had been at this place a rotavator passage in early autumn, 6 or 7 months before, less than 10% of fork, carrots that have snuck between pebbles, there is only 8cm of ground before an 2 / 3 mix of pebbles, 1 / 3 of soil. Everything was torn out without tools, with regular breaks at 8 / 10cm from the ground, but also 30cm cores.
For me the problem is not the compactions but the humidity rate, in wet soil the root makes its place. It can probably even be considered that the volume of water is only exchanged, and must not be compacted, pushed by the root than the dry matter.
Ditto for purple or pink radish from China, seeds placed on the ground with added soil, with the imprint remaining several months after harvest.
For the difference between the horizontal-axis rotavator and the vertical-axis rotary harrow, the under-utilization of the harrow is only due to its price, about 30 to 50% more expensive, and almost no opportunity. In large-scale farming, the rotary harrow is almost the only one to be used, often associated with a seeder.
Olivier.
Last edited by olivier75 the 10 / 05 / 18, 22: 28, 1 edited once.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 10/05/18, 22:14

A test "all other things being equal", consisting of unpacking one half and not the second, and doing everything else the same (same cover, same seed, same date, etc.), would allow us to know if this really has a significant effect. . Or if it is only psychological, to "reassure" because we cannot believe that without it, it will not work?

But every floor is a situation. It's hard for me to say anything. But it would be too much, I would try!
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 10/05/18, 22:16

olivier75 wrote:
For me the problem is not the compactions but the humidity rate, in wet soil the root makes its place.



Absolutely. As soon as the soil dries, the "glues" make it harden. As long as it is wet, it is sufficiently loose, even if it is compact.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by torrent sites » 10/05/18, 23:03

Did67 wrote:But it would be too much, I would try!


between my rigor (in fact in season I'm not able to remember where I did what and even less able to remember where I put the paper where I marked it) and the multitude of parameters that I can not handle it is almost impossible for me.

For example, my vegetable garden is not closed and the dog of the neighbor has taken as a habit, when I am outside, to come to sleep next to where I work (a good little bed of hay suits him well apparently).
The problem with the bestiau is that he did not understand the concept of alley so from time to time he walks on the seed beds: it does not cause major damage, but changes the parameters somewhat.
There will be a lot of parameters that I will not be able to control (moving vegetation cover, "antecedent" of the plot, ...)
Will the carrot be smaller or bigger because it will have walked there? impossible for me in this case to ensure 100% a conclusion

Another example, on the road side, I had planted a row of canas to prevent people from parking in the grass in summer. One year, a little "attentive" person (that's a nice term to replace another) rolled in to one place. The summer was bad for the flowers, they remained stunted in the row, except where the person rolled.
Do you have to run over them with a car in order to succeed (or rather well pack the earth) or does the fact of creating a "ditch" with the tire track which channeled more water to contribute to this growth?
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 11/05/18, 07:53

Just to complete my somewhat theoretical thinking - not to say that you are wrong, or that you "should this or that" ...

You cite the "hazards" of the tests. Those which are obvious, but there are as many which are "stealth": a dead animal under ground, a worm which attacks at such place, effects of embroidery, etc ... This is the reason why, besides the protocols "all other things being equal", in agronomy, the rule is repetition in large numbers, accompanied by statistical treatment. We make what we call "splits plots", ie we repeat the same small plot several times, in places drawn at random.

In our way of "tinkering", we can get around this:

a) being diligent and repeating year after year ...

b) by organizing several (which the review "The four seasons" has done a number of times), each carrying out the same test once; if we are 50, it is worth 50 repetitions ...

If the observations generally go in the same direction, we can affirm that this way of doing, or such variety and higher (or lower).

You especially see that we are far from the false good ideas promulgated by enthusiasts on the net. They played a Bach sonata and find that their tomatoes have no mildew and for them, it is obvious: a sonata of Bach makes it possible not to have mildew!

Remember that if A is supposed to have consequence B, we must also check that non-B leads to non-A! (and not the other way around, it's mathematics - logic).
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