Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?

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Meszigues3
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by Meszigues3 » 20/11/17, 09:55

izentrop wrote:It seems to me that there is a reversal between the density of compressed air at 100 and 600 m?

No: the air is 6 times more compressed to 600 mm is will make more energy to relax.
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cortejuan
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by cortejuan » 20/11/17, 16:24

Hello,

Whatever the form of energy we all have the same question ...

Maybe in areas with high density of ponds (Saone Vosges thousand ponds for example) it is playable, as they are often cascading, we could consider raising the water of the lower pond in the pond superior. As they are shallow (often one meter deep) we could go up 20 cm. On one hectare it is already a few m3 (2000 m3).

BUT, it takes wind, so ponds + wind conditions (not necessarily easy) and we must find the turbine. So it's frankly expensive.

cordially
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Meszigues3
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by Meszigues3 » 20/11/17, 16:52

cortejuan wrote:Hello,
BUT, it takes wind, so ponds + wind conditions (not necessarily easy) and we must find the turbine. So it's frankly expensive.

cordially
Hello,

It is not the wind that is missing, although it is irregular, it is the water and the unevenness.

In the Ruhr, 1 millions of m3 and 1300 m of unevenness is little (previous page), so a few ponds and a few meters of elevation, it is nothing.
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by Gaston » 20/11/17, 16:53

cortejuan wrote:As they are shallow (often one meter deep) we could go up 20 cm. On one hectare it is already a few m3 (2000 m3).
2000 m3, that is 2 000 000 kg on a height of 20cm or 0,2m store an energy of 2 000 000 * 0,2 * 9,81 = 3 924 000 J or 1090 Wh or 1,09 kWh : Cry:
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by dirk pitt » 20/11/17, 18:53

Meszigues3 wrote:
dirk pitt wrote:In France in winter the power demand on the network is frequently higher than 60 GW, either 60 GWh / h or 1 GWh per minute.
The WWTP of the Ruhr would hold a minute of consumption in France.
.


note without interest.
why not compare also the photovoltaic panels that I have on my roof with the global conso of electrcity.
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cortejuan
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by cortejuan » 20/11/17, 20:26

Gaston wrote:
cortejuan wrote:As they are shallow (often one meter deep) we could go up 20 cm. On a hectare it's already a few m3 (2000 m3).
2000 m3, that is 2 000 000 kg on a height of 20cm or 0,2m store an energy of 2 000 000 * 0,2 * 9,81 = 3 924 000 J or 1090 Wh or 1,09 kWh : Cry:


Hi,

there is an error in your reasoning: you suppose that the height of fall between the two ponds is 20 cm. In fact the ponds often have a vertical drop of 5 to 10 meters and it is this value that must be taken into account, not the 20 cm so the calculation gives:

2 000 000 * 10 * 9,81 = 196200 000 J or 196200 Kj or 54,5 KWh. for a vertical drop of 10 meters.

It is not huge of course, but a pond of one hectare is small and a difference of 20 cm is not big either. 10 hectare (a beautiful pond) it's already more interesting ...

That said, we see that storing a potential energy requires a lot of material mass to tumble.


cordially
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Meszigues3
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by Meszigues3 » 21/11/17, 00:10

dirk pitt wrote:note without interest.
why not compare also the photovoltaic panels that I have on my roof with the global conso of electrcity.
Goods.
It was just to remember the difficulty of storing energy, even with huge resources.
Hulot understood him.
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by cortejuan » 21/11/17, 12:02

Hello,

For me, it is rather water as heat transfer element which seems to me the most interesting. At least for a small installation.

Suppose we dig a heat insulated 5x6x1m3 hole, the equivalent of a small pool.

Filling with water, an alternator associated with the wind turbine supplies a series of heating resistances plunging into the reserve. Assuming that the water temperature of 20 is raised to 40 degrees C, the energy stored will be:

4,18x30000x20 / 3600 in kWh is 696,6 kWh. Unless error (to be verified)

This becomes interesting. Well it's true that it is thermal energy but it is stored and usable to heat the house via a small heat pump.

cordially
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by Lolounette » 21/11/17, 12:55

but for this type of storage solar thermal is it not better suited than wind?
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Re: Storage of wind energy without battery: possible?




by sicetaitsimple » 21/11/17, 19:30

Lolounette wrote:but for this type of storage solar thermal is it not better suited than wind?


Certainly, but there is little sun in winter in our latitudes. A little more wind. And doing "low temperature" inter-seasonal heat storage is still a bit complicated.

PS: To those who would like to bring me the well-known example of Drake landing in Canada, I ask them to accompany their answer with the cost of Drake landing ....
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