The dangers of allopathy vs safety of alternative medicines

[Janic]

"The habit does not make the monk", I repeat it often to you and there are heaps of examples of luminaries who slip in the pseudo-sciences, high studies or not.

Exactly! But the reflection of EK does not make a distinction between what some call pseudo science and other pseudo official sciences, since everyone sees noon at their door.

We tell you from the start, science is a fact admitted by everyone, and we often quote the first person who made a discovery as a scientist, but that is not the main thing.

Absolutely not ! You confuse once again the facts admitted, by a more or less important part of scientists of all kinds, and the use, the interpretation which is made of these facts. Clearly with basic elements that are legos, for example, therefore indisputable facts and according to the way they will be assembled (which depends on the project of each one and not of an automatic assembly of these.) The end result will be different.
But your zigotos, themselves pseudo scientists, consider as pseudo sciences "alternative medicines" which have proven their experimental results over thousands of years such as acupuncture, phyto, magnetism, hypnosis, etc ... which did not go through "western science" where, if it had been necessary to wait, humanity would have disappeared for lack of care.

In medicine, the effectiveness of drugs is double-checked, from different angles, and the advantages and disadvantages are drawn, and the main thing is that the benefit / risk ratio is largely in favor of the benefit.

We will try to repeat point by point:
In medicine, the effectiveness of drugs is double-checked,
False! for two main reasons
a) there is no medicine, but allopathic medicine which represents only one, among many much older and distributed around the world
b) All medicines are not double-blinded like vaccines which have a special status (although they are, OFFICIALLY, medicines)… like homeopathy has another.
from different angles and we draw the benefits and drawbacks
This is only partially correct. But these "exams" ONLY concern the toxicity measures, on laboratory animals (because we are mice of course), not the effectiveness of these on humans (see the subject already examined and developed in its time and which you will find on the official sites, therefore indisputable in your eyes.) which will only appear in phase IV
and the main thing is that the risk / benefit ratio be largely in favor of profit.[*]
This risk benefit again concerns toxicity of a product, compared to preliminary tests done on laboratory animals, not on humans. Indeed, here again it is official, phase II concerns individuals, humans, IN GOOD HEALTH, therefore not sick as the Palice would say, in whom it is not a question of benefit compared to a disease that they don't have, but here again for verification of toxicity in voluntary human guinea pigs (that is to say that one pays to endanger their health), then phase III on a larger scale, in unpaid human guinea pigs this blow there to verify the supposed effectiveness established by the lab, on a few thousand individuals, without besides that being specified (in any case I have not read it explicitly,) that it is a question of sick again (but still checking for toxicity). And finally phase IV which is to spread the product to the whole population OF SICK, there, to check in real situation if the profit assumptions announced by the labs are verified as: Servier for its pick, the vioox of Merck (40.000 dead ), thalidomide, diethylstilbestrol ,, methaqualone, Isomeride, Ponderal, (amfepramone) Anorex °, Préfamone Chronules °, Ténuate Dospan °, Moderatan °, (clobenzorex) Dinintel °, (fenproporex) Fenproporex prolonged action Deglaude ° (mefenorex), cholstat or stator, Ximélagatran / Mélagatran, Acomplia (Rimonabant), Dextropropoxyphene (generic name), etc… and its procession of patients for life, even for deaths.
If this is not Russian roulette, what will it be?

For alternative medicine, it's Russian roulette.

Already alternative medicine encompasses lots of different systems and each must be examined according to its particular fields of action and not others. Acupuncture will never put a broken bone back in place, but will help reduce the pain, osteopathy will work on vertebral displacements, for example, not on cancer, etc. Get out of your bubble!
[*] this opinion, peremptory, is not shared by all doctors including PR Even who questions these new drugs (under patent of course) which bring no additional benefit to others passed under generics, but who cost at the SS.

[Janic]

since I'm on Even, a few other passages on labs and clinical studies:

Cholesterol " The first one who tells the truth, He must be executed. »

(… 51'45 '') I'm talking to you about what are called clinical studies. A clinical trial costs the industry about $ 500 million, sometimes more. You can imagine that a modern company, a financial capitalism that dominates the world will spend $ 500 million to end up saying " my medicine doesn't work »The result must absolutely be positive, maybe not totally, but at least on one point there must be an apparent advantage and on this advantage, then, the marketing departments will be able to highlight it and propel their drug. But it is necessary at least that, and for that it is the absolute obligation, if the molecule has little or no effect, to improve the results, to improve them, and there the industry has reached a level of sophistication in the rigging of results (…) it's quite amazing as intelligence to deceive, to fake. To detect it, you must first be suspicious, critical from the start otherwise you swallow everything that is written, then you need a lot of experience in clinical trials, you must have read hundreds to know, between the lines, track where it was changed. And yet each clinical trial is a detective story. It is first of all a novel, because it is false and one must have the police spirit to detect all the maneuvers involved.
I would not say that no doctor realizes it, but a very small number have taken the trouble to acquire this experience.
A clinical trial is a day, I say even for myself because I have extensive experience, it is a day of work with a calculator, a pen to recalculate, locate, reframe presentation or fashion tips of calculation, I was going to say to put them all flat, it's a real job. Why do you want cardiologists to do it? Since the test will conclude that statins work and as they believe in advance, they're not going to have fun looking for proof that the essay is rigged so they're going to look at the last line, the conclusion. But the conclusion has little to do with the summary above, of 15 lines, where the summary itself has a lot of gaps compared to the 10-page article associated with it and the article by 10 pages is far from the results that the industry has obtained and which it keeps secret in its files. Besides, if these tests were not rigged: why would the industry refuse to open these files ? If she refuses to open them, it is because she has something to hide and then that's it!
Besides, every time there has been a lawsuit against the industry, for various drugs, on rogatory commission, she had to open her files and every time, always, constantly, there is no exception, we found that they had profoundly changed the results. She had excluded from it, we don't talk about it it's too embarrassing, we had embellished other curves, and between this or that group eliminated a whole series of patients who posed problems because they posed problems or accidents , etc. And what did that translate to? Every time, I say in all cases, there are no exceptions, the condemnation of pharmaceutical companies which ranges from $ 1 billion to $ 3 billion. They weren't small changes, they were things that completely changed the nature of the result (56'18 '')

See further on complications and sorting done on patients (1 h 05)

(1h06'57 '') then we come across the problem of pharmacovigilance. So there the doctors observe complications and will they report them? So here we fall in the general case, is that they do not report them, regardless of the drug and the severity of the complications. The system is so cumbersome that doctors don't go into it, they don't declare it.
It is said that 10% of the potential accidents they observe are transmitted to the surveillance agencies. Hospitals are the same, which have specific accident reporting services don't. We have been able to demonstrate that 10 to 15% of hospitals declare a certain number of accidents, not all accidents, and there are 80% who, although they have the obligation, do not do so. And pharmacovigilance: basta !!!
There are two major obstacles: unreliable clinical trials and slowed-down pharmacovigilance
(1h30'21 '') until then cholesterol did not interest me and suddenly it became for me, not only an economic scandal, but even more a scientific scandal, a false truth fabricated to make money, it is an absolutely horrible story. For me it is an emblematic story it is heraldic, of all the excesses of university medicine, the majority are honest, but they do not have the time, it is something else, of the industry of a magnificent skill and evil that I admire, not at our service, but at his service, but remarkable. Doctors that I always try to defend because they have no idea that false information, except that it is not forbidden to go back to the sources and it is not forbidden to read the PRESCRIRE review which does all the work for them, which puts on the table all the necessary truths, only for 30 years that it exists , it is drawn in 20.000 copies, doctors, pharmacists which goes up to 35.000., but there are 130.000 practicing doctors who will read what? Cabbage leaves like the Doctor's Daily or the Generalist who do not even hide that they are advertising agencies which are used to sell medicine, nothing else (…)

[sen-no-sen]

If a number of drugs that are not used for anything else are downright harmful to health, we can name as examples the plethora of cold treatments based on pseudoephedrine*.
In reality, its drugs only relieve an illness that goes without treatment for 6/7 days, but which weighs on users with possible heart problems.
For the rest, it is sad to note that apart from psychiatry and surgery, the progress of which has been very significant, general medicine has offered the same type of treatment for ... 40 years!


* Fans of the series "breaking Bad" know in particular that it is with the "pseudo" that some drug traffickers manufacture methamphetamine ....

[Janic]

general medicine has offered the same type of treatment for ... 40 years!

Professor Even, who is 86 years old, explains why in this same video and also why the 4.000 existing drugs boil down to 200 having actually proven their effectiveness.

[izentrop]

An interesting debate on the usefulness of alternative medicines, in particular the ways of apprehending the placebo effect in a positive way https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/ ... 1-mai-2018

Professor Even, who is 86 years old, explains why in this same video and also why the 4.000 existing drugs boil down to 200 having actually proven their effectiveness.

A funny gogo https://www.docbuzz.fr/2012/09/16/123-q ... ippe-even/
https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/ ... _3224.html

[Ahmed]

What is quoted about a "strange gogo" is only the reaction of the very conservative Order of Physicians to unshakeable corporatism: I note that this dispensary, created under Petain, does not present any substantive argument capable of calling into question the criticized work.

[sen-no-sen]

If I was paranoid I would say that there is a story of money underneath ... but it is not the case eh!

[Janic]

An interesting debate on the usefulness of alternative medicines, in particular the ways of apprehending the placebo effect in a positive way https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/ ... 1-May-2018

On this broadcast, we can see that there is not, in any case I have not heard, a representative of these alternative medicines… and which ones?. So it's like asking the Vatican for its opinion on Protestantism (as for its doctrines) or your max thing that only involves pro-agreement with its point of view or even nuclear-armed people congratulating each other without point of contradictory view.

A funny gogo https://www.docbuzz.fr/2012/09/16/123-q ... ippe-even /
By cons it is much more interesting, even with its own contradictions (of the author of the text) that in can detail and dissected by the menu. But that's interesting and doesn't say anything other than what Even repeats:
a report published in January 2011, “REPORT OF THE MISSION ON THE REDESIGN OF THE FRENCH SYSTEM FOR MONITORING THE EFFECTIVENESS AND SAFETY OF MEDICINAL PRODUCTS”. In summary, this 83-page report, also available online, denounced the entire drug chain, from their creation, to their commercialization, passing through the multiple stages of a drug's life: truncated studies, researchers incompetent and corrupted by the industry, complacent and undercover medical journals, incapable drug agencies, accomplice governments, etc. From this maelstrom of incompetence and corruption, evidently emerged that hundreds of drugs were ultimately useless, intended only to generate turnover for a cynical pharmaceutical industry. A global conspiracy that was time to end.
And long live this report, as for its application ...?

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/ ... _3224.html
On the other hand, this is M… e as usual and full of untruths and lies, but is it not their daily bread?
As for the questioning of colleagues, it is not the order of Vichyssois doctors to make the police but the individuals concerned before the courts for defamation. As for Even [*] he indicates that he has not practiced for 16 years and therefore strike him out of the order of doctors, it is as if an employer was dismissing one of his former employees already retired. But ridicule no longer kills!

[*] or Joyful who no longer exercises, either!

[izentrop]

You obviously haven't read the document. Without counting the medical errors of this gentleman

- “According to our own analysis of the 4.500 drugs on the market, excluding generics, (…) there are of the 1.120 original molecules, 100 (9%) major molecules, 210 (19%) important molecules, 250 (22%) molecules generally of modest effect, 170 (15%) of minor effect and 390 of zero effect, i.e. 560 original molecules (50%) without interest, as are the major part of the 170 associations and the 160 various homeopathic and oligotherapeutic products and herbal medicines, many of which are still reimbursed at a minimum of 15 and 35%, even 65% ”(page 13).

- “12% (of drugs), or 140 original molecules in 200 marketed versions, are to be handled with even more attention, because of serious or serious accidents, and even sometimes fatal, which have been reported”.

We will obviously regret that in 83 pages, that none of these assertions are argued or scientifically referenced, an ultimately logical oversight if medical journals are so corrupt.

The whole of this conspiracy theory is very much inspired by the arguments developed by a former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine, Marcia Angell, in a book published in 2005 and for which Mr. Even provided the French translation. The book did not meet any media success. The timing was probably wrong.

These are above all the medicines of alternative medicines which are of no effectiveness except placebo.

[Janic]

You obviously haven't read the document. Without counting the medical errors of this gentleman

Unlike you, MOI I read and watch all the documents and videos offered. That's why I said it was interesting.
« Only idiots never change their opinion Says a saying. It is therefore "normal" for people to evolve in their approach, even scientific (you should listen, you, the philosopher and scientist Etienne Klein who has blown your pseudoscience.)
However, I do not agree with everything Even says, but only to question the economic situation that ended up taking Big Pharma in this liberal world (for the rest I do not have the scientific skills to and you either) to the detriment of the real health of the populations.

These are above all the medicines of alternative medicines which are of no effectiveness except placebo.

You will have good to repeat your pseudoscientific mantra while millions of people are treated like this all over the world. "The dogs bark, but the caravan passes"
So this is a speech " fool who never changes his mind ". Alternative medicines do not all consist of giving medicines and as for placebo effectiveness, THE SUBJECT HAS BEEN SEEN AND REVIEWED and this concerns TOUS care systems.

Keep up with the news, the buzz about a new anticancer drug, by GMO manipulation, which has improved UN case of leukemia patient, it is the future miracle drug which may be due to this placebo effect that you love so much (which will flop as usual, for non-efficacy if not placebo, and will fall into oblivion after having filled the BP cases and emptied that of the SS)
Jenner had obtained UN success on smallpox and this caused a buzz until its eradication by isolation, not by an ineffective and dangerous vaccine (according to the WHO) or Pasteur who vaccinated other children and adults before and after the young Meister and who died from it (followed by many others) or got out of it despite and not because of the vaccine. This is how a religious myth is built, and its buzz is gone ONLY ONE CASE of supposed healing [*] and the supposed HIV / AIDS which would be responsible for these patients all over the world and which its inventor, Montagnier, recognizes to be only a virus in the midst of hundreds of others and no more pathogenic than others, who are not implicated.
Your fear-based superstitions are of the same tenor as those that made the past power of the Catholic religion (and the Inquisition) and its substitutes. Same causes, same effects!

[*] the scientists of that time said: "Pastor does not cure rabies, but gives it"in view of the statistical explosion of cases after vaccinations in the countries where they will be practiced.
https://www.infovaccinsfrance.org/-/historique/la-rage/
And it is from this that myths are built!