Vegetable garden of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Vegetable garden of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 31/05/17, 19:06

Hello,

2 words on the title
- (super) ... is the goal: to do almost nothing from sowing to harvesting

We start slowly a subject that we hope to follow regularly over our failures and successes

Where do we come from?
84, Luberon, tenants for years we tinkered over the (meager) opportunities that were given to us by perma-pheno ... etc culture without knowing it elsewhere.
Since January 2017 owners of 3ha in the 04: largely enough to "kill" the task but mostly do what you want and including experiences (finally)

Our way of thinking things:
All feedback from all of us are interesting.

And the word experience is essential because we expect to make tons in the market gardening or botany.
Mini example: 4 years ago we had bought tarragon on a plant market, the seller had told us that it was not even worth dreaming that he spends the winter ...
My faith it is 4 years that this tarragon started again more beautiful every year (planted in the ground against the house due north).

This year the move was made in the worst conditions, we unearthed the tarragon with the tear we put it in pots, it remained more or less protected outside, in our new place of residence, and even 2 small planters without any protection in full frost (we did not know what was in it) and he made -15 during 15 days and he left more beautiful the first beautiful days in spring still in the pots he was taken out of the pots and replanted in the ground and he wears himself like a charm ...
So we do not know how to interpret the "he will not spend the winter"

We look a lot of videos and other information on the net and we realize over the comments that many Internet users tend to consider as established and valid on their behalf achievements made in pictures ...

For our part we are rather cautious about the "ready to reproduce".

Because a multitude of parameters are different from a kitchen garden or garden to another

Difficult to be exhaustive but we can mention: climate, altitude, sunshine, type of sunshine, hygrometry, rainfall, rainfall frequency, water table, soil, sub soil, fauna, flora, agricultural environment, cultivated plants, varieties, genetic hazards , adret, hubac, predators or not ... etc

Reason why we plant the scenery to say that for each space we must ADAPT the achievements of each other to his land (earth summarizing all the parameters mentioned above) and not necessarily apply them to the letter.

Thus such a pioneer will provide you with extraordinary seeds of tomatoes that grow without watering (and that he has 20 years to select should not forget) and which will not be suitable for your land, we can multiply the examples to infinity .

On the other hand, applying this excellent method and attitude and SELECTING oneself from one's own SES crops to own seeds adapted to one's land seems to us the ideal driving.

We stop there for our vision of things.

So our land or plant the scenery:
Fallow land
800m altitude
Last rain: the morning of 2 may
Small breeding valley: no crops (no pesticides) and many hay meadows
Position on a mound in the middle of the valley: either far from the river and far from the "mountain", except error neither source nor water table close
Earth clay hard as stone (the electric auger - not very green all that - sometimes has trouble to start the 1ère layer is to say)
Glasses of earth: very little
Slugs: so far no
Bald: little (much less than in the Luberon)
Birds: jays oaks very thieves, crows, birds of prey, paragliders ...
Insects: crickets in abundance, at this moment almost no locusts (unlike the Luberon)
Butterflies: many, lemon, flambé, argus, Apollo (I'm surprised but maybe or very similar), not seen swallowtail for the moment,
Toads: 1 in the watering system
Rabbits: an invasion (mandatory fence). Our 4 cats, uh grinding our two pussies, started a daily hunt for rabbits
Wild boars: so far no
Roe deer: to date none
End of frost early May (snow the 1er May this year)
Fresh nights currently from 5 to 10 °
Very hot sunny days 30 ° BUT abundant cloudy budding so nothing to do with the Luberon and non stop direct sun
Land never cultivated.
Organic indicator plants (as they say): thistles, "golden buttons", daisies, clover, bird's-foot trefoil, wild cherry trees, wild rosehips, viperine, daisies, wild camomile, plus all those that have not yet been taken. time to discover and the "quills" in shambles.

This gives an idea of ​​the area and its biotope.
We would probably learn even more about our land by having a better knowledge of all the flowers or plants that we have not identified but it will come with time ...

Here is the bare ground starting at the moment where on the left with a friend agri has installed the greenhouse, the right part being devoted to an open kitchen garden

Image

Image

See you soon for more, question, criticism, reservations and suggestions welcome, positive or negative you are a taker of everything is how we progress.
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by sicetaitsimple » 31/05/17, 20:57

Good evening, welcome, and good luck for this installation.

Rereading, I tell myself that the first problem (for gardening / market gardening, I did not understand if the project was meant to be personal or commercial), it's water, right?
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by lily 31 » 31/05/17, 22:11

Hello and welcome
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 01/06/17, 00:14

sicetaitsimple wrote:Good evening, welcome, and good luck for this installation.

Rereading, I tell myself that the first problem (for gardening / market gardening, I did not understand if the project was meant to be personal or commercial), it's water, right?


Hello

Thank you and welcome for the encouragement but the hardest is done mounting the greenhouse and enclosure summary but sufficient to protect the garden of rabbits.

The kitchen garden is a personal project just for eating.

And the garden idem personal project but it is another area.

In fact we are totally unaware if water will be a problem: this is the point of sharing, we do not know and we will see all this together

All we know is that the earth is hard as awnings BUT it is very quickly wet at 4 or 5cm under the surface

Advantage if you dig a hole in the auger to plant a peg for example and we close it all with the same soil by stuffing well with a mass enough to keep the stake ... good for safety I add one or 2 pebbles but it would be concrete it would be the same

It is good hyper-compact clay that will be excellent for our future accessories in mud but for the culture it will be the surprise.

For the moment with a good layer of straw all is well it stays wet below yet the greenhouse goes up to 50 ° and outside 30` in the shade everything grows .... one crosses the fingers ....

For a month no watering tomatoes either in a greenhouse or outdoors.

But we have absolutely no preconceived idea, or want to beat the record of no watering: we will adapt to the circumstances as well as (especially) 'to the weather especially for the outside and to a certain extent for the inside.

The goal is to really do as little as possible and to watch pushing: do not cut anything, do not tear off anything, water as little as possible, plant seedlings and scoops (that's not yet decided but it has air to walk so why not)

If it works we continue if it does not work

Image

Image
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Did67
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Did67 » 01/06/17, 11:23

nico239 wrote:
We look a lot of videos and other information on the net and we realize over the comments that many Internet users tend to consider as established and valid on their behalf achievements made in pictures ...

For our part we are rather cautious about the "ready to reproduce".

Because a multitude of parameters are different from a kitchen garden or garden to another

Difficult to be exhaustive but we can mention: climate, altitude, sunshine, type of sunshine, hygrometry, rainfall, rainfall frequency, water table, soil, sub soil, fauna, flora, agricultural environment, cultivated plants, varieties, genetic hazards , adret, hubac, predators or not ... etc

Reason why we plant the scenery to say that for each space we must ADAPT the achievements of each other to his land (earth summarizing all the parameters mentioned above) and not necessarily apply them to the letter.



1) For some reason, this thread had escaped my vigilance.

2) Yes, alas, on the internet there is 90% of ... bullshit!

Rarely, one of the essential conditions is respected: if A has consequence B, still it would be necessary to verify that non-B gives non-A; otherwise, it's just a coincidence ...

At the very least, we should at least make a comparison "all other things being equal", before asserting that A is a miraculous solution!

An alternative, sometimes, to establish that it is not a coincidence being to know the real biological mechanisms. We then have a "presumption of causation" (nobody, in real life, will ever see the nitrifying bacteria; but when after warming and wiping the earth I see the growth exploding and the plants turning darker green, I " know ", with little chance of being wrong, that it is nitrification, which I know bacteria require about 14 ° minimum, are aerobic, etc ...

So even if I don't escape my dose of enthusiasm, sometimes self-blindness, I try to remain "scientific" (believe what you see) and not be in "the religious incantation. "(see what we think).

3) One of the first dias, in my lectures, is: "To each his own vegetable garden of the lazy man"

To each his PP.PNG



That's to say if I agree.

This is also the reason why I make the effort to explain (at the risk of getting drunk), rather than "ditching" a solution ... which is only mine.
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Did67 » 01/06/17, 11:28

nico239 wrote:

For the moment with a good layer of straw all is well it stays wet below yet the greenhouse goes up to 50 ° and outside 30` in the shade everything grows .... one crosses the fingers ....



However, I invite you to discover what I wrote on "phenoculture" and why straw is a "poor" material, while hay is naturally rich and balanced. While covering as well, protecting the water reserves as much ...

The better you feed the living organisms in the soil (earthworms, bacteria, fungi, and many others), the better your soil will "deteriorate" (that is, become "loose on its own").

I consider that I am a breeder of living organisms of the soil, which, they, gardening for me. And not a gardener. Like any breeder, I take care of the ration of my livestock ... with hay. And not with straw, which is only a poor waste.

But of course, you do what you want! But try!
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 01/06/17, 15:09

"To each of his kitchen garden lazy" we are exactly on the same wavelength ...

And it is this notion that must be conveyed or even made understand with sometimes some efforts of pedagogy ...

Because the helping fashion effect, which in this case is rather positive, could turn against "us" if the neo gardeners do not so much imbibe the underlying philosophy.

As I said above pheno-perma and co ... it's not ready to reproduce or ready to plant but ready to adapt to its context ... which is not quite the same
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 01/06/17, 15:30

Did67 wrote:
nico239 wrote:

For the moment with a good layer of straw all is well it stays wet below yet the greenhouse goes up to 50 ° and outside 30` in the shade everything grows .... one crosses the fingers ....



However, I invite you to discover what I wrote on "phenoculture" and why straw is a "poor" material, while hay is naturally rich and balanced. While covering as well, protecting the water reserves as much ...


Totally agree but the term "straw" was generic ...

In fact the neighbors give us
- dry mowing (large quantity)
- straw (large quantity)
- hay (small quantity)
(I will do the pictures)

So we manage with this and I summarized all in "straw"

We try to have more hay (and more) but this more it is not given precisely :)

On this subject I take advantage of the mowing to indicate the track of the many small businesses of "landscape" who often unload their claws and all the toutim (small cuts, branches ... etc) directly to the landfill.

Which is really spoiling the goods ...

In general, these pros have traditional training at 90% and therefore totally ignore the benefits of this garden waste and are delighted to come and dump at home especially since landfills are not all free for them.

They are in high season so apply for it is the winner for everyone.
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Did67 » 01/06/17, 15:54

Yes, but be careful:

- high nitrogen content, too "boosts" bacteria, to the detriment of fungi; eventually, too much nitrogen in the soil, and even if it is nitrogen is "organic", we can expect the same effects as with ammonitrate: vegetables that are too grown, too fragile, too attractive for them. parasites (especially suckers)
- no / little cellulose,
- risk of fermentation even if dried before; it is re-moistened and can then ferment ...

I would highly recommend mixing with straw, possibly dead leaves. Or, to a lesser extent, sawdust or chips, to restore a C / N of about 20.

Hay is naturally balanced. For other materials, you have to "knit" ...
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 01/06/17, 15:59

I share that's why we mix being careful on mowing.

As said above we do what we can with what we have more the pile of leaves ... oaks (picture to follow as the rest)

In this regard question: the oak leaves (decomposition hyper slow) is better in leaves or crushed in "sawdust"?
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