Disinformation: renewables are bankruptcy EDF?

[sen-no-sen]

Insofar as photovoltaic solar requires (depending on its places of production, like China) a C02 equivalent barely amortized with the lifetime of the panels and that wind turbines use in their motors rare materials (eg neodymium type ) it cannot be said that renewable energy does not lead to geopolitical modification.
Of course we are again very far from the disasters caused by oil exploitation, but oil is a super heavyweight.
If we reversed the trend by replacing oil with renewable energies, I am not sure that the result is particularly glorious ... "less worse" can be.
The problem is always the following:the quantitative.
RES are meaningless if they are deployed in a growing world.

[Ahmed]

In addition to the mobilization of rare or conventional resources (but problematic if the withdrawal intensifies through this), a wind turbine (for example) requires a large mass of concrete (250 to 400 M3- a router = 6 to 9 M3 ), invisible because most of it is buried under the ground. However, we know that concrete is very energy-consuming during its manufacture (just like the steel of the reinforcement which will never be recycled).

[chatelot16]

Insofar as photovoltaic solar requires (depending on its places of production, like China) a C02 equivalent barely amortized with the lifetime of the panels and that wind turbines use in their motors rare materials (eg neodymium type ) it cannot be said that renewable energy does not lead to geopolitical modification.

Are you sure that all wind turbines use neodymium magnets?

to my knowledge it is especially small wind turbines for individuals who have magnet alternators: for large ones often prefer wound excitation, more economical because it only uses iron and copper, and just as efficient











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[Christophe]

The Germans have replaced nuclear power with coal and we are talking about tens of thousands of premature deaths. I do not accuse you: "How much do you value the value of a human life? "which would be discourteous on my part.

It is quite inaccurate to make such a deduction.

The Germans have "always" had coal in the majority share in their electricity production, nuclear power has always remained in the minority.

The particle deaths are very real and are not recent: they have nothing to do with the exit from German nuclear ... It is a fallacy to say this. Otherwise there would not be any in France ... deaths by particles are mainly due to traffic and heating (and to a lesser extent to urban incinerator). Modern coal-fired power plants emit few particles, the technology is mastered on this side there (but CO2 level it goes!)

The Germans, on the other hand, conducted a very encouraging policy on renewable energies which enabled them to exit nuclear power without an explosion of prices (prices historically higher than in France because German electricity is more privatized).

[sen-no-sen]

Are you sure that all wind turbines use neodymium magnets?

to my knowledge it is especially small wind turbines for individuals who have magnet alternators: for large ones often prefer coiled excitation, more economical because it only uses iron and copper, and just as efficient,

Most indeed:
https://www.industrie-techno.com/quand-les-eoliennes-seront-des-mines-de-terres-rares.12448

The development of offshore wind will increase the need for lanthanides, this group of 15 chemical elements known for their exceptional magnetic properties. Indeed, at sea, the traditional design of wind turbines, with a speed multiplier, does not hold because too prone to breakdowns. The alternative solution, known as direct drive, is therefore considered by most manufacturers: Siemens, Alstom and General Electric.

Rotational energy is converted directly into electricity using permanent magnets. But these magnets, especially those based on neodymium, use a large amount of rare earths, up to 600 kg for a 3,5 megawatt wind turbine. Projections estimate that it would take 150 tonnes of neodymium to supply 000 gigawatts of additional wind power.

[Meszigues3]

It is quite inaccurate to make such a deduction.

The Germans have "always" had coal in the majority share in their electricity production, nuclear power has always remained in the minority.

The particle deaths are very real and are not recent: they have nothing to do with the exit from German nuclear ... It is a fallacy to say this. Otherwise there would not be any in France ... deaths by particles are mainly due to traffic and heating (and to a lesser extent to urban incinerator). Modern coal-fired power plants emit few particles, the technology is mastered on this side there (but CO2 level it goes!)

Exact. Thank you for the correction.
Production by source changed little in Germany between 2002 and 2016, except for:
Nuclear: -76 TWh;
Biomass: + 49 TWh;
Wind + PV: + 100 TWh.

The Germans, on the other hand, conducted a very encouraging policy on renewable energies which enabled them to exit nuclear power without an explosion of prices (prices historically higher than in France because German electricity is more privatized).

For the prices, I don't know, the research is laborious. I note that the countries cited as an example for their ecological virtue (Germany, Spain, Denmark) have prices per kWh significantly higher than ours.

This is one of the little touted advantages of renewable energies: the increase in prices lowers consumption for the greater good of the planet.
I find the abnormally low energy prices (especially electricity) in France scandalous.
An interesting site: http://www.electricitymap.org/
We note, carbon intensity:
Germany: 448 g CO2 / kWh;
France: 86 g CO2 / kWh.

[Christophe]

Indeed, at sea, the traditional design of wind turbines, with a speed multiplier, does not hold because too prone to breakdowns. The alternative solution, known as direct drive, is therefore considered by most manufacturers: Siemens, Alstom and General Electric.

ENERCON wind turbines use Hexaphase "dynamos" (2 nested three-phase circuits) in direct current + inverter therefore without mechanical speed regulator and this for more than 20 years ...

They are among the most reliable wind turbines in the world (and the most expensive too)

[Christophe]

Exact. Thank you for the correction.
Production by source changed little in Germany between 2002 and 2016, except for:
Nuclear: -76 TWh;
Biomass: + 49 TWh;
Wind + PV: + 100 TWh.

That's it ... so the exit from nuclear power was offset by renewable energy ... just like the increase in demand ... cqfd ...
Thank you for the figures ... (not verified but it seems consistent)

This is one of the little touted advantages of renewable energies: the increase in prices lowers consumption for the greater good of the planet.
I find the abnormally low energy prices (especially electricity) in France scandalous.
An interesting site: http://www.electricitymap.org/
We note, carbon intensity:
Germany: 448 g CO2 / kWh;
France: 86 g CO2 / kWh.

+1 for the price of individuals, especially with PowerNext electricity is "Europeanized" ...

For carbon intensity I think these figures are exceeded because they are the ones I have in mind and which date from the early 2000s ...

[chatelot16]

Are you sure that all wind turbines use neodymium magnets?

to my knowledge it is especially small wind turbines for individuals who have magnet alternators: for large ones often prefer coiled excitation, more economical because it only uses iron and copper, and just as efficient,

Most indeed:
https://www.industrie-techno.com/quand-les-eoliennes-seront-des-mines-de-terres-rares.12448

The development of offshore wind will increase the need for lanthanides, this group of 15 chemical elements known for their exceptional magnetic properties. Indeed, at sea, the traditional design of wind turbines, with a speed multiplier, does not hold because too prone to breakdowns. The alternative solution, known as direct drive, is therefore considered by most manufacturers: Siemens, Alstom and General Electric.

Rotational energy is converted directly into electricity using permanent magnets. But these magnets, especially those based on neodymium, use a large amount of rare earths, up to 600 kg for a 3,5 megawatt wind turbine. Projections estimate that it would take 150 tonnes of neodymium to supply 000 gigawatts of additional wind power.

do not listen to everything that is said on the net

you do not have to conclude anything from the difference between a gearbox and a conventional alternator or direct drive: even in direct drive it is possible to do this with wound excitation without a magnet: it is that we see on enercons who is not the last of the constructor

so we can make large wind turbines with direct drive without magnet ... but if some other manufacturer prefer magnets it does not bother me ... they can change the method if the noedyme is missing since the other solution is possible

another way of seeing, the magnets do not wear out ... when the wind turbines are at the end of their life we ​​can do something else

same remark for the concrete foundation ... when the first wind turbine will be used the foundation will be able to support other ... I even think that the mast will be able to support several successive generation of wind turbine

Are the large hydraulic dams dismantled 20 years after their construction? very old hydraulic plants continue to produce and will continue to produce for a long time

no one will worry if we extend the life of wind turbines! less dangerous than extending the life of nuclear power plants ... the worst thing that can happen to a wind turbine is to fall ... and there is never anyone below on windy days

[Meszigues3]

For carbon intensity I think these figures are exceeded because they are the ones I have in mind and which date from the early 2000s ...

They are published in real time:
at 22:19 p.m.
Germany: 447 (instead of 448 an hour ago)
France: 85 (instead of 86).
The daily chart is at the bottom of the site, it hardly changes on a day.