Plan tri-jet with pantone Gillier GV for polo petrol

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Pascalou
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by Pascalou » 30/01/14, 06:56

Ok I will read these documents carefully, thank you!
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https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/partag ... xfBlcC.doc
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Pascalou
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by Pascalou » 15/02/14, 10:11

Here, I read this very interesting document, but in our case, the combustion takes place at high pressure, which in my opinion is a definite added value, which we did not have in the combustion of boilers.
I have thought about it and I will soon have my reactor sorted built
It will be made of stainless steel 310 for resistance, placed very close to the engine outlet for high temperature. The lambda regulation will be distorted so that the wealth remains at 1 all the time and have a certain constant, the cathalytic pot will be removed to be able to check the pollution with the system alone.
The factors that will be set is the amount of water vapor, and their temperatures with several easily removable tests.
My original fuel consumption is now fixed, my pollution with catalytic converter too.
My question is on the best location for the steam nozzle on the intake, is it really better after the accelerator valve? It is sure that the best depression is there. The problem is that it is not very accessible.
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Pascalou
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by Pascalou » 15/02/14, 10:15

Correction, try several rods to vary the steam temperature
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Pascalou
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by Pascalou » 15/02/14, 10:22

I think I said something stupid there, we can connect the steam after the accelerator valve that on diesel, on gasoline, we will disrupt the wealth, it can not work.
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by Flytox » 15/02/14, 21:50

Pascalou wrote:I have thought about it and I will soon have my reactor sorted built
It will be made of stainless steel 310 for resistance, placed very close to the engine outlet for high temperature. The lambda regulation will be distorted so that the wealth remains at 1 all the time and have a certain constant,


It is very little documented on econo of how we do to lure this lambda probe. If you have the recipe that works .....:P

The factors that will be set is the amount of water vapor, and their temperatures with several easily removable tests.

The problem is that many parameters are linked, in particular to the engine speed, the intake vacuum, the temperature before and after the reactor, the exhaust temperature, the air, water flow rates, etc. .When a parameter moves (voluntarily or due to engine operation), it also moves the other parameters ... and not always in the same direction. Clearly when you change a setting, the size of an organ, the length or diameter of a pipe, it is difficult to know what will happen.: Cry: : Mrgreen: Most often there is a change without really knowing its precise origin.

In your example, change the diameter of the rod, change the flow of "steam", the quality of the "steam", its temperature, possibly the water consumption, the engine speed range at which the "good" steam is create etc ...... but if you do not instruct your system ... you do not really know what happened and what are the parameters that have actually moved and in what direction. Ultimately, after reading the consumption, it is better, without obvious effect, or worse than before ...: Mrgreen:

AMHA the minimum of instrumentation is the steam outlet temperature, then the reactor inlet temperature.

My original fuel consumption is now fixed, my pollution with catalytic converter too.


Excellent !! If all Pantomists had taken this wise precaution before starting to modify their vehicle, there would be less errors of appreciation and fanciful consumer statements.

My question is on the best location for the steam nozzle on the intake, is it really better after the accelerator valve? It is sure that the best depression is there. The problem is that it is not very accessible.


After the throttle valve, you have a very strong depression when the throttle is very little open (slowed down and very low speeds), the reactor provides a little steam according to the temperature of the relatively cold exhaust at idle. When the throttle opens more frankly the vacuum decreases a lot, the reactor is sucked much less, but the quantity of steam which arrives depends more on the temperature of the exhaust which can "blow" much hotter steam.

From one operation to another (big change in depression and temperature), some users have "solved" the problem by putting a nozzle (within 3 or 4 mm in diameter?) To "stabilize" the operation.

Before the throttle valve (on mower carburetor engine), this disrupts the carburetion. The place taken by steam is not taken by air and its oxygen. The resulting downstream gas mixture will be too rich because the fuel flow follows the depression and not the percentage of oxygen available.

If it is an injection engine, it is better to connect before the throttle valve to a venturi to more easily follow the needs of the engine. In any case, the oxygen depletion will not be compensated upstream .... remains to be seen what the lambda and company regulation loops will do with it .... : Cry:
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by dede2002 » 16/02/14, 17:40

Hello :D ,

The lambda probe will always try to stabilize the ratio at 1.
It is an oxygen battery, as soon as it has oxygen on both sides its voltage drops (lambda> 1, lean mixture).
As soon as there is no more oxygen, the voltage rises to 0.7V. (lambda <1, rich mixture).

We should see it oscillate around 0.5V. with a needle voltmeter, if it gets stuck at the top it's too rich so outside the correction range (if everything is functional), you can reduce the fuel pressure to deplete.

Should it adapt to the addition of steam and correct the amount of fuel?

I have not yet understood why we should distort its signal?

With the addition of steam, can the engine be operated in a lean mixture?

In gasoline the lean mixture works very badly, a large part of the fuel does not meet the flame, there is oxygen but also a lot of unburnt in the exhaust gases.

The water vapor should not influence the probe, the exhaust gases anyway full of water vapor.
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by Flytox » 16/02/14, 19:07

dede2002 wrote:It is an oxygen battery, as soon as it has oxygen on both sides its voltage drops (lambda> 1, lean mixture).
As soon as there is no more oxygen, the voltage rises to 0.7V. (lambda <1, rich mixture).

We should see it oscillate around 0.5V. with a needle voltmeter, if it gets stuck at the top it's too rich so outside the correction range (if everything is functional), you can reduce the fuel pressure to deplete.

Should it adapt to the addition of steam and correct the amount of fuel?

I have not yet understood why we should distort its signal?


With the addition of steam, can the engine be operated in a lean mixture?

In gasoline the lean mixture works very badly, a large part of the fuel does not meet the flame, there is oxygen but also a lot of unburnt in the exhaust gases.

The water vapor should not influence the probe, the exhaust gases anyway full of water vapor.


I suppose that the regulation with the lambda probe imposes limits not to be exceeded for the corrections in + or in less than the richness. To enlarge the limits, it is necessary to tamper with the information sent to the calculator, such as a slightly different temperature or pressure, etc. This is where there is a serious lack of reliable information on the adjustment methodology. : Cry:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

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dede2002
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by dede2002 » 16/02/14, 19:55

To start with, you should put a voltmeter on the lambda sensor on the dashboard and observe the operation while driving and at idle.

Then if the operation changes with steam, we will advise.

This will depend, among other things, on the type of injection, flow meter, manifold pressure sensor or accelerator potentiometer.

In my opinion the correction range of the calculator is wide enough for it to work correctly around (as close as possible) to lambda 1 with or without steam ..?

Pascalou, how much are your current values,% CO, ppm HC and% CO2?
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Pascalou
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by Pascalou » 17/02/14, 18:30

Hi, for the lamda probe, my mechanic friend says that he is going to give me an electronic box that adjusts the wealth to 1, he works at Volkswagen, I understand that it is used on cars that switch to LPG, wealth regulation should be reviewed when switching to LPG. After that I don't know any more. I will still ask him for details and I will give you news.
For my pollution results I will give them to you, I need to find the paper ...

Another idea, I have three reactors, I could have two reactors with long rods to completely overheat the vapor, and one with a short rod which leaves a large part of wet vapor therefore theoretically electrified. So I have a mixture of the two. At least this idea will be part of an essay on pollution and consumption.
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https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/partag ... xfBlcC.doc
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Pascalou
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by Pascalou » 17/02/14, 20:06

Let's agree on one thing, The Lamda probe detects the% of O2 in the exhaust, if this% increases, the amount of gasoline will be increased (precisely to bring the richness to 1, that is to say stoekiometric) if this% is too desoldering, the quantity of gasoline decreases, because there is too much gasoline and not enough oxygen, so the richness remains the same near 1.
It is certain that when the reactor works well, the oxygen rate in the exhaust increases (I do not know why but it is like that, almost all the testimony of gas analysis show it on the best installation! But I will myself check on my little engine and give me my experience on it)

So my reasoning is simple, when I say that the richness restaras has 1, (I misspoke myself) I mean that it will be like "Fixed" and more according to the rate of oxygen in the exhaust. But will be like in an old car without regulation. This is what my mechanic friend offered me.

The desired advantage is not to have a "variant" which could distort consumption and pollution. We return to a richness without regulation, which always remains "fixed", the variant will be only the quantity of steam and its temperature.
Because I think wealth regulation is no longer good with the system, I am not in love with it, I think that the system revolutionizes the engine and its combustion a lot more when it is adjusted correctly.
Dailleur the best results with the Pantone gillier are motors without regulation, and several reactors. We also note that in recent engines, we quite rarely have very good results, and I do not think it is only because the engines already consume less by their better performance. I think we can improve consumption a lot more on recent vehicles. But there it is my faith! :)
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https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/partag ... xfBlcC.doc

 


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