Company: surplus, consumption by terror

[Ahmed]

The gospels have actually been written long enough after the events they describe: a few decades, but not a few centuries!
For translation problems, Italians have an explicit adage: "traduttore, traditore" (literally: translator = traitor).

[chatelot16]

it is true in writing a few centuries I had the heavy hand

[Janic]

chatelot16 hello

the myth ... like Vercingetorix, and our ancestor the Gauls ... completely invented in the era of Napoleon 3!

It's like "our ancestors the Gauls"taught in our former African colonies !?

what about 4 gospel, some ecris century after jesus?

There is a distinction between written and oral transmission. The writings intervene to avoid the dilution of the event by embellishments or dramaturgies and thus the myth. The peculiarity of 4 Gospels (actually 3 + 1 because that of Jean is very different from previous 3) is their almost perfect match.

What about ancient writings, which have been recopied and translated successively into different languages?

indeed, as Ahmed underlines "traduttore, traditore". However, it is necessary to bring a nuance linked to the Hebrew culture; during recopying, if there is a burr of a pen, an inaccurate form, the document will be destroyed in its entirety which can represent hundreds of hours of meticulous work lost. Indeed, unlike our writing which can undergo many deformations of form (the famous illegible handwriting of doctors for example), this is enough to read. But Hebrew is not just an approximate graphic form: each letter has a spiritual, mathematical, educational meaning, etc… and must therefore be respected to the nearest iota. This is how we found, when discovering Qumram's writings, the perfectly respected transcription between ancient writings and modern writings.

ahmed hello

It is obviously necessary to distinguish between founding myths that do not have the function of relating historical facts and real characters whose history has preserved the trace by embellishing, according to the times, a mythical dimension for utilitarian purposes

Precisely, once again: according to what criteria? Can we decide, today, that such point is historical and such mythical point on the simple criterion that it seems to us little credible or exaggerated.
The myth is in the past what fiction is in the future. In the Middle Ages, (and more recently) the fiction of large pieces of scrap weighing hundreds of tons flying in the air would have been considered impossible, likewise for all the current technology that we are proud to use daily as computers or smartphones. If tomorrow we invented a machine capable of separating water everyone would rave about the technical performance, but an individual does it by simply raising his arms, it is considered impossible because only a machine could do it (vanity materialism! ). But the "extra-ordinary" without machines are always commonplace, yet we must open our eyes!
PS: we continue to move away from the subject and there is no other available!

[sen-no-sen]

Precisely, once again: according to what criteria? Can we decide, today, that such point is historical and such mythical point on the simple criterion that it seems to us little credible or exaggerated.

According to very simple criteria: common sense!
History has always been mystifying.
The mystification has always had a specific goal: to maintain a domination.
This is the case with advertising, which, in order to make us buy cars or chocolate bars, needs to "sell dreams".
Eela to allow the flow of goods, in a logic of market creation ... and economic growth.

So behind the beautiful advertising images, hides simply a logic of market aimed at increasing the turnover of a company.
This model is inspired by the religions themselves and tends to supplant them!

If tomorrow we invented a machine capable of separating water everyone would rave about the technical performance, but an individual does it by simply raising his arms, it is considered impossible because only a machine could do it (vanity of materialism! Evil or Very Mad)

On conditions that there is opening waters ...
It might be more rational to talk about water getting out ...

Moses stretched out his hand on the sea, and the Lord made back the sea, all night long by an impetuous east wind, and he put the sea to dryand the waters were divided. The children of Israel came into the midst of the sea, in its dry bed, the waters standing up on their right hand and on their left.

It fits very well with a "wind setdown".

But it's totally off topic ....

[chatelot16]

one way to order is to make law, but it is not very effective, because it takes gendarmes to apply them

it is much more effective to govern by making a sect or a religion, by putting in people's heads principles containing all that is necessary to make the application mandatory

it is also effective to make fashions, to control fashion by advertising

advertising and religion use a little the same method

[Ahmed]

Chatelot16, you write, quite rightly:

Advertising and religions use a few of the same methods.

The Christian religion invented the logo, the slogans, the virtual economy (indulgences, etc ...), the derived products, the fight against the counter-ways, the multinational, the territorial mesh, the chains of stores with strong visual identity*...

Other religions have followed the same path (or preceded it) ...

* The easiest way to find someone in an unknown village is to make an appointment in front of the church!

[Janic]

sen no sen hello

On conditions that there is opening waters ...
It might be more rational to talk about water getting out ...

There is then a contradiction between those who seek to explain a possible opening and the doubt that it may have occurred!
http://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences-technol ... -rouge.php
"And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and the LORD set back the sea all the night by an impetuous east wind, and he put the sea to dry, and the waters were divided. The children of Israel entered the midst of the sea, in its dry bed, the waters rising in a wall to their right and to their left»

It fits very well with a "wind setdown".

Just not! This does not fit with the reference text, which says: " water standing in the wall on their right and on their left". I do not know what notion some of the use of the term wall may have, but that usually means: A wall is a wall of great height intended to protect a set of buildings by their enclosure. We are far from a retreat of a reduced height and which forms just no wall.
One should respect a certain coherence in the reading because: or this text is purely imaginary and has no need to find a resemblance with a known phenomenon, or it is the relation of an event lived by thousands of people who bear witness of a lived reality. Hence the question: what are the criteria used to distinguish a myth from history? (knowing that common sense is a simple view of the mind that differs from one individual to another)

Quote:
Advertising and religions use a few of the same methods.

The Christian religion invented ... Other religions have followed the same path (or preceded it) ...

It's not a question of religion, but simply of human nature speaking through the channels available in each culture. So the Christian religion (Catholicism, Protestantism are not representative of the Christian religion, so we must avoid this confusion in the terms used) did not invent anything, it did as all the cultures that preceded it (and followed as well).

[sen-no-sen]

There is then a contradiction between those who seek to explain a possible opening and the doubt that it may have occurred!

You quibble!
I have noted water which withdraws rather than "opening" of the waters!
And so make a distinction between an opening of the waters in the manner of a Hollywood film now well known and an impressive phenomenon, but natural.
Nevertheless there are a number of historians who claim that there has never been an exodus as described in the Old Testament, but that is another story ...

Just not! This does not fit the text in reference, which says: "the waters standing in the wall on their right and on their left".

It fits perfectly with the biblical texts!
An east wind repelled the waters, which withdrew:
And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and the LORD set back the sea all the night by an impetuous east wind, and he put the sea to dry, and the waters were divided.

Then people ventured into the drained area, then observed their famous water walls, which were to be about 40km, according to the study.


http://www.weatherwise.org/Archives/Back%20Issues/2011/January-February%202011/red-sea-full.html

It's totally HS !!!

[Janic]

sen no sen hello

Janic wrote:
There is then a contradiction between those who seek to explain a possible opening and the doubt that it may have occurred!

You quibble!

This is what a theological study serves: to go to the end of the possible interpretation of a text as a whole, as in detail, or even in the structure of a single word, of a single letter and especially in Hebrew.

I have noted water which withdraws rather than "opening" of the waters!

Effectively ! But in a strong wind, the waters do not withdraw as the tides do, but they are repulsed. The text does not say rejected, or open but divided " the waters were divided ... the waters rising in a wall on their right and on their left (Not at 40 km !!!!)
So always sorry, but the site indicated does not take up the TOTALITY of what the text quotes. Indeed, the phenomenon indicated by your cited site, requires a shallow depth to repel water on one side and not a wall on both sides. For that it would have taken two contrary winds starting from the center of the parched part or of a strong central wind opening a way perpendicular to the walls of waters.

And so make a distinction between an opening of the waters in the manner of a Hollywood film now well known and an impressive phenomenon, but natural.

Of course you should not take this film for the "exact" representation of a text, but it is quite close to the text in reference.

Nevertheless there are a number of historians who claim that there has never been an exodus as described in the Old Testament, but that is another story ...

Which historians? The most competent are those whose own story they describe. Now almost all modern Hebrews still hold these texts historically true and accurate.

It's totally HS !!!

always for lack of adequate subject!

[sen-no-sen]

always for lack of adequate subject!

You have only created a subject on the subject.

The text does not say repulsed, or open but divided "the waters were divided ... the waters standing in the wall on their right and on their left" (not 40 km !!!!).

Definition of the word Divided: Share a whole in several distinct parts.
It's clear or not?
That is to say that there were two bodies of water separated by a dry part, it's easy to understand ...

Indeed, the phenomenon indicated by your cited site, requires a shallow depth to repel water on one side and not a wall on both sides.

And what is that?

Which historians?

Google is your friend!

I will not answer in the subject anymore, end of HS.