Summer geothermal solar heating project for winter

[Did67]

so you have to look for customers a little further to sell heat ... and the pipes are expensive

is there any other house nearby that could be interested in this heat? even if the length of the pipe is not immediately profitable for energy, but is justified to be sure to sell more than 70% of the heat

1) You will be surprised (or not?) To learn that this project first generated an outcry from residents. We had a rather stormy meeting, where we were criticized for causing the loss of value of the houses in a fairly close subdivision ...

Noise, danger of explosion, smell, everything is there. We had to make precise studies to simulate the blast wave in the case of an "explosion" [in fact, not being "closed", a methanization station does not explode; it's just a big inflammation, which stops very quickly and has no effect beyond I don't know what distance, quite small; this has been simulated; the tanks themselves, in the absence of O², do not ignite; you can shoot it with "tracer" bullets].

For odors, we had to build an unloading building in depression, with very powerful ventilation, extraction and air treatment ...

The group is in an over-soundproof box and should not be heard at 100 m. Scooters will vroom vroom in the neighborhood, but that's something else, it's their children!

It is extremely hard to carry out such a project in peri-urban areas. We start to succeed after 6 years!

We had questions, following the ICPE file, of I no longer know which government department on the benzene content of emissions and I no longer know which cyclic compounds by the cogé engine. Knowing that we are very close to the highway on which a good part of road traffic passes from Northern and Eastern Europe to France / Spain !!! Must we believe that these thousands of trucks emit Eau de Cologne ????

Hard hard !!

2) But here again: subdivision = intermittent need (winter), not responding to our wish for recovery; the adjoining factory was a much better customer, more regular, even if we have small problems on weekends and holidays ... But compared to the heating of a housing estate, these small interruptions are peanuts! We therefore favored this option. Suddenly, we can no longer supply the subdivision during the week! So you can't "pipe", it wouldn't be profitable - if people wanted to!

I am in a "perfectionist" approach, to promote these few niches ... If I find a feasible idea!

To tell you how far our thoughts go: we thought of teaming up with a car wash station, which works fully on Saturdays!

[dedeleco]

Very interesting this info on the difficulty of the project.

A real idea, applied in the USA, use this summer heat just to remove the ice on the nearby highway (they store 30 to 40 ° C of summer bitumen, under the highway in depth for the winter to avoid the ice by heating it back) ?????????
I have to find, but it is obtained with on google interseasonal heating

with lots of studies and companies.

[Obamot]

[...] Nothing tells me besides that the underground storage will be recognized. And many tell me that it would probably be the opposite! [...] in fine, one always comes across someone who interprets the texts in their own way; When it comes to paying, it's never won. [...]

In my corner, since the country decided to get out of the nuclear, new laws were passed (and it didn't drag on, six months after it was done). Now there is no more hassle for renewables, as before. In addition the opponents who appeal against, are systematically rejected ... Proof is that there was a correlation with the lobby of this filth!

The federal government has decreed renewable energies "Of national interest"!

When is the government of Holland going to do the same? France is on track to be late ...

[chatelot16]

so in summer nobody wants to buy more heat

therefore slow down or stop the generator and store the gas

return to 120MWh from the start

about 10KWh for 1m3 of methane

120MWh / 10 kWh / m3 = 12 m000
so a 22m cube side: a not so huge gasometer

but beware I counted with pure methane ... the biogas contains a lot of CO2 which increases the volume to be stored, and makes it useful to make a CO2 purifier

compressed to 200bar it's only 60m3: it's less bulky and it will be less frowned upon by the neighbors

except that at the best price it is 200 euro the 50 liter bottle which stores 10m3, therefore 20 euro the m3 stored

the 12000 m3 would require 1200 bottles and would cost 240 euros ... no need to calculate how many centuries it pays for itself with one cycle per year

[Obamot]

I'm just thinking of something! It is the temperature of 90 "C that Did67 seems to have available. Nobody spoke about it, but it is not far from the boiling temperature that?

With a small contribution in summer, it can produce electricity with a turbine, right?

So our reasoning should not be the same as for augmented geothermal energy! Because to storcker it in depth for it to be worthwhile, we will have to dig deep and the pipes will not be PVC which will deform!

I haven't thought about it yet, but there must be a way to do much better! You have to think in high temperature there ... It's not the same at all.

I see much better Chatelot's suggestion for district heating, to tell the truth, and the remainder to possibly heat greenhouses! Could summer be interesting for possibly producing some electricity?

And of course, "sanitary water" available all year round!

[chatelot16]

nothing obliges to keep the same temperature, it is enough to invent warm water

mixing cold water with water at 90 ° C makes a greater amount of warm water containing the same energy

[dedeleco]

I'm just thinking of something! It is the temperature of 90 "C that Did67 seems to have available. Nobody spoke about it, but it is not far from the boiling temperature that?

boiling, at more than 2 to 3000m altitude, yes!
otherwise it is a T of degassed water !!

Idea: to disinfect in a hospital? ????
To make lots of coffee ??,
To cook in short broth full of meats or vegetables, or beets ??????????????????
and that weekends ???????

With a small contribution in summer, it can produce electricity with a turbine, right?

Carnot's maximum yield that of (Tc-Tf) / Tc = (90 ° -20 ° C) / (273 + 20) = 24%
with losses of only 10 ° C in the exchangers, enormous if high power.
In reality less than half, about 1/3, or 8% to 12% with a very sophisticated turbine

So our reasoning should not be the same as for augmented geothermal energy! Because to storcker it in depth for it to be worthwhile, we will have to dig deep and the pipes will not be PVC which will deform!

It is not toilet PVC !!
But polyethylene PE, which we find in HT for our hot water heaters, everywhere at briciomachin, considering the copper very expensive !!

And still this belief that very deep is necessary for it to be worth it !!

I haven't thought about it yet, but there must be a way to do much better! You have to think in high temperature there ... It's not the same at all.

I see much better Chatelot's suggestion for district heating, to tell the truth, and the remainder to possibly heat greenhouses! Could summer be interesting for possibly producing some electricity?
!

It is not the high T of a nuclear thermal power plant or a fossil combustion plant, at more than 300 ° C under high pressure !!
Certainly one can heat in summer, with this heat of too much by beautiful heat wave !!
and given the efficiency, we hardly have 10% of electricity 120/10 = 12KW max, to operate heat pumps elsewhere.

I think Did67 thought about it !!!
on a beautiful 6-year project.

We all, everywhere, in our chimneys and boilers, our power stations, our roofs in the sun, etc ... waste this energy !!

And it is very difficult to stop this waste, with the price of energy very low, if measured by fatigue while pedaling or climbing, to make this energy.

[Obamot]

Dedeleco, you are definitely very good when you get started (I mean when both feet are on the cows' floor ). I do not have your spirit of synthesis on certain points. For lack of knowledge, I readily admit it.

[chatelot16]

to store gas in summer when the person doesn’t want heat, and to wind it in winter, it’s not just the sheet metal gasometer in a water tank (the water tank costs more to build than the sheet metal bell

there is the flexible pvc tank like truck tarpaulin always inflated to block with another plastic pocket inside to contain the gas ... when this pocket is partially inflated it is protected from the wind by the external envelope

pvc is not a perfect seal and the quantity of gas lost in one year would not be negligible: but today there is better: EVOH: it is a new plastic with very high gas tightness more additionally used in food packaging: it is from the transparent EVOH that the bag in wine bag in boxes are transparent without alumunium layer

the Chinese have what it takes to catalog
http://french.alibaba.com/product-gs/me ... 85117.html

another advantage of storing methane: it works regardless of the quantity chosen, unlike thermal storage in the ground which is hopeless in small

it is therefore possible to make a project with several storage dome and realize only one to start, and realize the other when there is enough heat consumer in winters

to nail the spout to the neighbor who would be afraid of this gas storage: methane is lighter than air: even if lightning fell on it the flame would rise to the sky and would never do any damage next to it

of course we can also think of a false move that would mix air in it: and prefer to place the tank far from any house

it makes sense to put the generator next to the heat consumers, it is possible to put the storage dome further in the middle of the fields: the methane is easily transported by a polyethylene pipe

[Did67]

In fact, store the methane.

Unfortunately, we missed this during the design. We had to oversize the dome and oversize the group !!! No doubt the marginal cost was low !!!

Add this, in conditions of security that we are imposed on (it is an ERP! Establishment of 1000 people nearby. Subdivision nearby! We are not allowed to tuck in! Do you know that we have an additional cost of 150 000 euros on a poultry house project compared to the same chicken coop built by a farmer just because we are an ERP!) Will be expensive!

For information, I am writing a note that I hope to push "very high" in the governmental sphere to propose a modification of the pricing of electricity from biomethane, with a higher "peak hours" tariff , in order to finance the additional cost of storage / doubling of the units, the idea being to only run the units in peak hour and in particular in the evening / night relay of solar during the day and wind according to the winds? But it is then necessary to "buffer" the heat requirements, which is not too complicated when it comes to differing from sbeosins by four hours, but also has an additional cost!

I continue to read you with interest.

I still don't have a "better idea" than the one I had: storage in the first 15 meters of our loess. But I still have trouble figuring out! I am quite tempted by the burial of a simple network of PE with a drainer. But I did not even find how far, in loose soil without rocks, such a machine could descend!