Vaccinations and health ... for or against?

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Janic
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by Janic » 10/01/18, 13:27

Janic you are tiring.
and it's painful sir who writes that! Don't you have a mirror at home? : Evil:
Why, the Snowdrop Foundation does not count vaccination in the probable causes of autism?
:
You still have the same difficulties with French! As you are a fan of the Internet, the goals of Perce Neige are clearly expressed there: to help those affected, not to value or devalue scientific discourse, it is not their role.
the day they associate international pluralistic scientific literature on the subject, the point of view of this association will be heard too!
Probably more stupid than you, obviously
So the more stupid of the two seems to be, not me, but those that I quote who dare to question the dogmas in progress. but you are much more intelligent and competent than them, obviously!

Read and analyze what Perronne says about Lyme disease: he makes the same speech concerning the non-independence of medicine with respect to influence groups and the voluntary or unintentional ignorance of the subject.

Hello
And more seriously, he claims that doctors who treat Lyme disease outside protocol, especially for the chronic form of the disease, are prosecuted and condemned by social security !
Health-pollution-prevention / a-about-to-the-disease-of-lyme-borreliosis-t12559-90.html
One more who dares to speak out against the conservative system in place. When will she be struck off?
23'00 ''
… .German people had seen bacteria in ulcers since the 19th century… French people saw the same thing we made fun of them, ... when Australian gastroenterologists showed that it was that, fifteen years ago, it is not very old, we made fun of them, all the gastroenterologists in the world went against them declaring that they were impostors....
It's to show you that now everything the system of monopoly of control, of censorship in scientific journals is so organized when you go against a single thought that you can no longer progress in medicine … It's starting to shock me, we are delusional, there are fierce censorship in medical journals, it's a very good example

Nothing new under the sun! We denigrate first, then we champion what we vilified yesterday.
For those who remember the start of the conference on the found mummy, the person was carrying a packet of therapeutic mushrooms, said the speaker. Wouldn't we be the real discoverers of natural antibiotics?

36'30 ''
What do you think of the American recommendations of the infectious diseases society IDSA
It's a shameful affair
Political reason
Money goes for 30 years to those who always produce the same thing, that is to say nothing
[/ I]

With a few nuances, it suffices to replace Lyme with vaccines. However this doctor is perhaps provaccines, but this subject is obviously not his specialty and could not support this analogy.
Thus, for those who have deepened the subject of AIDS, he takes up (in passing) the official discourse on this point there and which he would probably not support by studying this subject as he does for Lyme. But to each his motivations! :(
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Janic
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by Janic » 13/01/18, 10:51

and it continues dare dare! the politics of fear is in full swing. After and even during campaigns to get vaccinated against the flu, measles is added to the wind of panic to be triggered.
http://invs.santepubliquefrance.fr/Doss ... embre-2017
This site is all that is most official and provaccine, of course, and yet its analysis should give food for thought on the coherence of the discourse held.
So if we examine the picture of France and the regions affected, we can ask legitimate questions:
How to explain that important regions (in white) are at an incidence of 0, while according to the authorities, the vaccination coverage is insufficient, and that the blue, dark blue regions, are confined in particular zones including mainly the south of France and obviously the Paris region? There would be the good guys who are vaccinated at more than 95% on one side and the bad guys who would not! Weird! The radioactive cloud had stopped at the borders of France and measles does the same from one department to another: stop the measles viruses! It made us laugh, afterwards, for the radioactive cloud, and yet these same authorities still want to make us believe in invisible barriers, both departmental and national.
How to explain the peak of 2011 when we stick to a theoretical average over a whole country, considering, there too, that the territorial limits are insurmountable barriers from one country to another, with different prevention systems and particularly those where there is NO compulsory vaccination. We are really taken for c ..., calves as the great Charles said.

And as some have only superficial notions of the functioning of the immune system, this explanation from an associate professor of biology will allow septic tankers to better understand the absurdity of a standardizing system.


Michel Georget: "The effectiveness of a vaccine depends on our HLA immune system"
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by izentrop » 13/01/18, 15:09

You like your rumor spreader, Yanic : Mrgreen:

Caroline Peat
Head of the medicine, life sciences department, in the magazine “Science et vie”, explains to us why polio is more difficult to eradicate than smallpox.
Listen from 21:30 p.m. https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/ ... nvier-2018
"In Nigeria, which interrupted vaccination between 2002 and 2005, led to the reappearance of the disease in 18 surrounding countries ... Closer to us, Ukraine has once again become a country at risk ..."
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Janic
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by Janic » 13/01/18, 17:25

You like your rumor spreader, Yanic

I especially like to find a balance between opposing opinions. The current information system, on vaccine magic, is more about superstition than science. So you would have a hundredth of the knowledge of an associate professor of biology, (not specifically that one) you couldn't even counter-argue. So when you say that this is a rumor spreader, who do you think you are? : Evil:

Caroline Peat
Head of the medicine, life sciences department, in the magazine “Science et vie”, explains to us why polio is more difficult to eradicate than smallpox.

Listen from 21:30 p.m. https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/ ... January-2018
I listened in full to his speech which is entirely conformist to that held by the provaccines but can it be otherwise?

Training
• IHEST Institute for Advanced Studies in Science and Technology
National cycle, Auditor (in progress 2017-2018)
2017 – 2018
• EPJT public school of journalism of Tours
Journalist, magazine, radio, TV training
1995 – 1996
Lille 1 University of Science and Technology

So no scientific training recognized by a state diploma and it can therefore be compared to another journalist in a similar situation that was Sylvie Simon, so criticized for that.
But I doubt it will hold up against this state-certified biology professor!

So apart from a few exact points, the rest is either a lack of information (did she only read the WHO report on the eradication of smallpox, I doubt it or she skipped the passages which do not go in its direction?). No smallpox was not eradicated by vaccination, but by containment as the WHO says several times cited.
And what else does WHO say on this point: "WHO report 1974
« it is questionable whether the rate of decline in mortality has not been too easily attributed to health action.
During the long and relatively slow development process in most of the presently industrialized countries, economic development, especially at the initial stage, has probably contributed more effectively than public health and clinical medicine to reducing mortality.

1979 WHO smallpox
« smallpox was not a disease that raged simultaneously and randomly in many areas of the district of the country, but a disease with slow progression (…) smallpox was not as transmissible as expected (…) The idea that smallpox often provoked lightning epidemics, causing dozens or even hundreds of cases during a single incubation period, turned out to be baseless »
but the provaccines (the labs) caused a wind of panic which favored the distribution, very profitable financially, of its products: and long live the business!
"In Nigeria, which interrupted vaccination between 2002 and 2005, led to the reappearance of the disease in 18 surrounding countries ... Closer to us, Ukraine has once again become a country at risk ..."

This phenomenon is common! When the whole armada of vaccinators arrives in a region, it also brings care, medicines, information on hygiene (boiling water). Their withdrawal provokes an abandonment of this hygienic sanitary environment and the illnesses start to grow again. Nothing to do with the vaccines themselves.
Lack of funding, corruption, mistrust of doctors: the reappearance of polio in Ukraine, practically eradicated in the world, illustrates the flaws in the vaccination system and the risk of the spread of contagious diseases in this former Soviet republic. "This was to be expected," said Deputy Health Minister Igor Pereguinets following the discovery of two cases of polio, the first in Ukraine since 1996 and in Europe since 2010. Only 17% Ukrainian children were vaccinated against this highly contagious disease in the first half of 2015 against 50% in 2014, he said. The characteristic paralysis of polio started this summer in four-year-old and ten-month-old children in Transcarpathia, the Ukrainian region bordering Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland.
Same thing, an article can be analyzed: 17%, 50%; we are far from the 95% recommended by our medical academy and despite this: no epidemic. However, two cases since 1996 are the typical example that a low vaccination coverage does not in fact imply an epidemic. Then can be declared polio only if the virus is present and which since there are 3 and is it then a wild virus or a poorly attenuated vaccine virus and finally these children were they or not vaccinated . Other forms of paralysis have appeared since vaccinations, has there been a comparison? No specific information in this article and therefore scientifically inadmissible.
Finally these two children, before hospitalization, were able to transmit this virus to dozens of people. Now it does not appear anywhere that the "epidemic" of this highly contagious disease of two people spread in a country with only 17% vaccinated. Who are we kidding?

Eliminating distrust of vaccines
The immunization situation started to deteriorate as early as 2008 after the death of a boy who had been vaccinated against measles.

Same situation, the death of a VACCINE child is not an indicator of a risk in children vaccinated as unvaccinated, it essentially depends on the state of the immune system of the individual.

The government immediately SUSPENDED the vaccination against this disease, reinforcing the mistrust of many parents who later decided to simply stop vaccinating their children.
Kouchner did the same with the hepatitis B vaccine. Was it a distrust or a more in-depth study?

Extensive anti-vaccine campaign[*] then started. "Today the situation is critical. Even in Parliament half of the deputies do not vaccinate their children. They fear that this could kill them," says Olga Bogomolets.
Eh yes ! A deputy is above all a man and often a father and grandfather and the precautionary measure becomes de rigueur pending further information.

https://www.sciencesetavenir.fr/sante/m ... tion_30134

[*] There are no antivaccines! 14 European countries do not impose vaccines, they are not antivaccines however. Freedom of conscience is a necessary due in a democracy and disappears in a totalitarian country.

While there is the fact that in 2032 (in only 14 years) 1 child in 2 will have more or less accentuated signs of autism seems to leave everyone indifferent and 10 years later it will be the entire population which will be so. !
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by izentrop » 14/01/18, 00:38

I will once again contradict your mistakes, but it is tiring by force.
Janic wrote:So apart from a few exact points, the rest is either a lack of information (did she only read the WHO report on the eradication of smallpox, I doubt it or she skipped the passages which do not go in its direction?). No smallpox has not been eradicated by vaccination, but by containment as the WHO says several times cited.
Following a global vaccination campaign by the WHO, smallpox was declared eradicated in 1980. It no longer occurs naturally, but stocks of variola virus are still kept in two reinforced containment laboratories. http://www.who.int/topics/smallpox/fr/
That's exactly what she said, so don't tell stories.

And for your mentor, the habit does not make the monk
Michel Georget gives the appearance of properly documenting his words and books by referring to studies published in scientific journals. But he seems gifted to distort the results of these studies or to omit a part of them, thus managing to make them say the opposite of what they show. https://www.psiram.com/fr/index.php/Michel_Georget
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by Christophe » 14/01/18, 02:06

Janic wrote:So apart from a few exact points, the rest is either a lack of information (did she only read the WHO report on the eradication of smallpox, I doubt it or she skipped the passages which do not go in its direction?). No smallpox has not been eradicated by vaccination, but by containment as the WHO says several times cited.


Uh sorry to intrude here, but the containment is not, at least in part, due to vaccination? : Cheesy:
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Janic
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by Janic » 14/01/18, 09:37

christophe hello
Uh sorry to intrude here, but the containment is not, at least in part, due to vaccination?
Getting in is precisely the role of your forums, no ?
Finally a good question! Currently on radio and television waves, flu prevention tips regularly appear: Wash your hands, cough in a handkerchief, throw it away, wash your hands again, avoid direct or close contact with people who have already had flu. This is a containment measure and it is valid for any contagious disease by air diffusion and by contact. This same message states that this is used to avoid contamination and therefore avoid sick people in the presence of contaminating agents.
(B. - In fig. [Corresponds to stem B 3] Action of restraining; result of this action.
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/endiguement
)
Second, vaccines have a preventive role outside periods of contamination, that is to say when you are not yourself contaminated.
So in a way and it is indeed the alleged and asserted role concerning vaccinations which also serves as “containment” and why not ?!
Then it is in the reality of daily life that the effectiveness of each means implemented is measured.
Only how to make the distinction when these two modes overlap?
So if only hygienic prevention measures were practiced by 95% of the population (it's just a question of education): what proportion of patients would be avoided?
In the same way if only vaccination were practiced: what proportion of patients would be avoided? (If you find verifiable figures I am interested.)
But, because there is a but, ignoring what proportion of the population will practice this preventive hygiene (whose purpose indicated is to avoid contamination and therefore sick) the reduction in sick and dead will be attributed FULLY to vaccination. Cock-a-doodle Doo! : Evil:

To return to smallpox, which serves as an example on the effectiveness of mass vaccination, there, WHO clearly says that in general this has proven to be ineffective and it is by containment by isolation of the sick (quarantine) and their relatives that the disease regressed and then disappeared.
This method is very old, we find it in the biblical texts which recommend the isolation of the patients, there are thus several thousands of years, well before our science rediscovers it.
And this is valid for all contaminating diseases of course!

For the anecdote, as a documentary on this smallpox and the start of containment measures emphasizes, its initiator was the son of a Protestant pastor where the reading of biblical texts, and therefore of the history of Judaism, is regular and therefore these hygienic measures (and others hardly practiced at present) were familiar to him.

1977 Smallpox defeated: The last case of smallpox was recorded in Ethiopia. The WHO spokesperson, FJ TOMICHE, signed a large article on this adventure in the newspaper Le Monde (21/12/1977) where he said: " From a strategic standpoint, the abandonment of mass vaccination in favor of the so-called “Containment Monitoring” approach is of vital importance. With this type of approach, transmission was successfully suppressed even when the incidence of smallpox was high and immunization rates were low. The method consists in the prompt detection of new cases, followed by the search for all possible contacts and their isolation in order to stop the transmission. ».

in 1980 the Director-General of WHO, Doctor H. MALHER said, concerning this report on smallpox:
Because of the exceptional nature of this achievement, it is important that public health officials, historians and future generations have access to the evidence on which these conclusions were based.
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by Christophe » 14/01/18, 14:10

Janic wrote:Getting in is precisely the role of your forums, no ?


It's more OUR forums that my ... To answer you, the reality is that I cannot follow in detail every discussion ... so some I skim over them ... and I interfere from time to time

I think you mix causes and consequences a bit, don't you?

Vaccination has saved more people than it has killed, it is a fact that cannot be questioned, there are side effects which can be serious or chronic (allergies) and it has allowed few people to make a lot of money but this was, overall, for the good and the evolution of humanity! When the body no longer has to fight disease, bin it has the energy to do something else ... to speak thermodynamically as some like here!

Like everything, their abuse is harmful (but as powerful groups are behind and they would like to grease themselves even more bin here is ... "we" abuse it) ...

Religions, to repeat another theme that is dear to you, I am not sure that they have such a positive effect ... ah but they have given humanity (at least for the 3 monotheistic religions) a "speculative hope post mortem"So don't do too much bullshit down there, or else fuck your ass up there!

So this is the story of the priest who advises you not to do bullshit when he rapes your child or the Bishop who asks to give the little you have in church to save your soul (in reality it is for brown the places of worship and that he eats better) .... But that was before ... Sorry I'm going a little hard ... but there is that!
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by Janic » 14/01/18, 16:35

I think you mix causes and consequences a bit, don't you?
It is true that in some cases the distinction is not easy. This is why, depending on the subjects, it requires peeling them to the heart!
Vaccination has saved more people than it has killed, it is a fact that cannot be questioned, there are side effects which can be serious or chronic (allergies) and it has saved a lot of people a lot of money but it was, overall, for the good and the evolution of humanity! When the body no longer has to fight disease, bin it has the energy to do something else ... to speak thermodynamically as some like here!

Here are two typical examples of unverifiable postulates that are more dogma than reality on the ground (see the subject smallpox)
In fact, the vaccinations which began in the West with Jenner in England corresponded to a request from populations frightened by the mortalities caused by epidemics and where medicine had no mass solution. Vaccination therefore appeared as a kind of non-religious messianism that would offer salvation to these populations and their justified anxieties.
So you should never remove the context that leads to health or political decisions. Now Jenner had obtained results only on a single case (he will recognize, it seems, at the end of his life his error, but whatever). In the same way Pasteur obtained results only on a single case, the child Meister. However, the dog was known to bite everything that came within its reach without a declaration of rage in bitten people. On the other hand, the postman, bitten too, was vaccinated and died of rabies precisely. At that time, given its results, scientists laughing at its failures said " pastor does not cure rabies, but gives it »In view of the increase in victims in terms of statistics at the time.
So apart from its inevitable victims, vaccination appeared to be the solution of the future and politically effective to reassure frightened populations who were not aware of the statistics (no more currently) hence its indisputable placebo effect given the power of suggestion. Furthermore, the majority of populations, under conditions of sufficient hygiene, have an immune system capable of getting rid of various external aggressions (sores, microbes, viruses and bacteria) and therefore there is and will be only a very few victims vaccinated or not. However, we will attribute the victory to mass vaccination as for smallpox, which is biological nonsense in addition to inaccurate information.
Last point: the money, the money that leads the world! At the start of vaccination, the financial aspect plays only a minor role, it is not a question of vaccinating 95% of a population but only a few individuals here and there. But gradually, this financial aspect will take more and more importance and it is now numbered in billions, in an important economy, in thousands, millions, of professionals all over the world and therefore of jobs. The situation has therefore changed and the economy, business and profitability dominate all industrial sectors including this one.
Skepticism over Meister's vaccination
The evidentiary value of the famous Meister vaccination leaves some specialists skeptical. What made consider that the dog which had bitten Meister was rabid is the fact that "this one at the autopsy, had hay, straw and fragments of wood in the stomach16". No inoculation of the substance taken from the dog was made. Peter, Pasteur's main opponent and great clinician, knew that the diagnosis of rabies by the presence of foreign bodies in the stomach was obsolete. He pointed this out at the Academy of Medicine on January 11, 188717. Victor Babeș, a disciple of Pasteur, confirmed in 1912 that “the autopsy is, in fact, insufficient to establish the diagnosis of rabies. In particular, the presence of foreign bodies in the stomach is almost worthless18 ”. The diagnosis of rabies in the dog that had bitten Meister is also considered uncertain in a treatise on rabies of 199119. In a book of 200120, the author notes that Pasteur decided the treatment without being certain that the dog was rabid. In 2012, in an article in Frontiers in immunology, the dog was described as “supposedly rabid” 21. In a 200822 book201323, Professor Hervé Bazin said: "The animal was rabid, at least it had been declared as such by the man of the Art. In fact, a simple autopsy never made it possible to specify, with certainty, a diagnosis of rabies. "In XNUMX, the same author expressed himself as follows:" (...) when a nine-year-old boy, Joseph Meister, attacked by a dog most probably rabid under the circumstances of the drama. "
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Meister

Like everything, their abuse is harmful (but as powerful groups are behind and they would like to grease themselves even more bin here is ... "we" abuse it) ...
It's just ! But who will decide where the abuse begins and stops? : Shock:
Religions, to repeat another theme that is dear to you, I am not sure that they have such a positive effect ... ah but they have given humanity (at least for the 3 monotheistic religions) a "post mortem speculative hope" so don't do too much bullshit down here otherwise pan pan ass ass up there!
Religions and I do not mix well on a theological level and I cannot therefore take a position on this point. The rest is culture, traditions in shambles. However you fall into an excessive simplicity by this image of Epinal which is hardly shared by these 3 religions.
So this is the story of the priest who advises you not to do bullshit when he rapes your child or the Bishop who asks to give the little you have in church to save your soul (in reality it is for brown the places of worship and that he eats better) .... But that was before ... Sorry I'm going a little hard ... but there is that!
It is not too strong! Priests and other religious are humans like all others with the same sexual or emotional needs, but misdirected because of dogmas and perverted doctrines over the centuries. However, not all of them are rapists or ogres. The money of worship (for the little I know) is voluntary now and the priests are very poorly paid.
When the body no longer has to fight disease, bin it has the energy to do something else ... to speak thermodynamically as some like here
I return to this doctrine or dogma. We confuse fighting against and learning the necessary survival. vaccination is supposed to encourage this learning to face a targeted aggressor in the event of encounter with a wild virus for example. But it does not work like that in biology as in everyday life. Indeed learning against an adversary diminished by attenuation does not make an individual able to fight well against an adversary in full possession of his means (practice a martial art and you will understand why!) and it is even worse if this adversary is made dead by pharmaceutical preparation because who fears a dead enemy and how will that prepare him for the meeting with a very alive adversary?
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Re: Vaccinations and health ... for or against?




by Gébé » 14/01/18, 19:40

Janic wrote:I will now consider an important and delicate point: the protection for the unvaccinated offered by the vaccinated.
It is as if 95% of bikers wear a helmet and their number would provide protection for those who do not wear a helmet. Any normally sane individual would realize this nonsense. The helmet only protects those who wear it, not the others.
Janic wrote:We confuse fighting against and learning the necessary survival. vaccination is supposed to encourage this learning to face a targeted aggressor in the event of encounter with a wild virus for example. But it does not work like that in biology as in everyday life. Indeed learning against an adversary diminished by attenuation does not make an individual able to fight well against an adversary in full possession of his means (practice a martial art and you will understand why!) and it is even worse if this adversary is made dead by pharmaceutical preparation because who fears a dead enemy and how will that prepare him for the meeting with a very alive adversary?


After vaccination compared to wearing a helmet, now that the fight against diseases is becoming a combat sport.
We no longer vaccinate and those who survive polio or smallpox come out stronger (if they do not have too many aftereffects eh anyway : roll: ).
This is not completely false, in times not so distant on the scale of the human species, life expectancy hardly exceeded 30 years and it worked like that : Mrgreen:
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