Vaccinations and health ... for or against?

[Janic]

Janic wrote:

You, on the other hand, are simply against vaccines.

absolutely not! You see you read badly and too quickly. I am for the free choice to be vaccinated or not according to his conscience and the law.

So you think vaccines are effective.

You take me for a ball with such big strings.
Do you think the vaccines are effective ?! So you've always had them all done with all his reminders and of course you have gone ahead with the obligation of the additional 8 without waiting for a final and final decision. I am even convinced that you got the cervix, vulva and vagina vaccine as a precaution as they would have boys do too. And why not the 70 American vaccines?
No need to answer it, even with a lie: you simply didn't do it! " The counselors are not payers ! »

[Janic]

already mentioned the laws and rules that govern freedom of choice in matters of health

• Article 3 of the declaration of human rights-
• civil code which recognizes the principle of respect for the integrity of the human body-
• Nuremberg code (http://www.frqsc.gouv.qc.ca/documents/1 ... 8f14f4e6d5
• Article 36 of the medical code of ethics
• The various judgments of the Court on transparent information due to patients
• The Kouchner law which says that no medical procedure can be performed without the free and informed consent of the person
• Article 1111 of public health which says that every citizen has the right to freedom to accept or refuse a medical procedure.

is vaccination a medical act and therefore any illegal obligation?

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

FYI what does it give the figures (in France) AND causes the deaths caused by diseases for which we still vaccinate or more elsewhere?

What are the arguments of all (? If I understood correctly) European countries (or even others) not to practice compulsory vaccination anymore?

[Janic]

nico hello

FYI what does it give the figures (in France) AND causes the deaths caused by diseases for which we still vaccinate or more elsewhere?

Oulalah! this is a big, a huge subject (we are more than 60 pages) that will leave you hungry since it is controversial, but you never know if you can do it sorting!
Otherwise, go to the official website, INPES, the only indisputable source for those obsessed with scientifically and above all officially admitted. Then, for comparison, on sites that say otherwise and make a personal opinion.

What are the arguments of all (? If I understood correctly) European countries (or even others) not to practice compulsory vaccination anymore?

it is not a question of argument but of realism: when serial accidents occur States must respond to the information needs, not misleading, of the populations who worry.
In regimes where there is no democracy, it is the authoritarian (authoritarian) and arbitrary decision which imposes its will without explanation. [*]
With us, which are supposed to be a democracy which intends to respect its own laws, it is the conscience clause which ensures the population not to be under a totalitarian regime and guaranteed by the principles stated above and which I repeat therefore:
• Article 3 of the declaration of human rights-
• civil code which recognizes the principle of respect for the integrity of the human body-
• Nurenberg code (http://www.frqsc.gouv.qc.ca/documents/1 ... 8f14f4e6d5
• Article 36 of the medical code of ethics
• The various judgments of the Court on transparent information due to patients
• The Kouchner law which says that no medical procedure can be performed without the free and informed consent of the person
• Article 1111 of public health which says that every citizen has the right to freedom to accept or refuse a medical procedure.

Is vaccination a medical procedure? Can a regime that flouts these basic rules be declared democratic? This is where we should start, the figures come after in confirmation or denial.
In practical terms, these countries considered that certain diseases had almost or completely disappeared and therefore that there was no longer any reason to impose them, in the current state of affairs. With us it is the BCG (with great difficulty but it was an urgent request of the pediatricians vaccinators) and the smallpox which were suppressed and therefore there remains only the DTP. (in France only) How will Europe harmonize all this?
Already, tetanus is not a communicable disease, no more than rabies and one is imposed and not the other: why? To the extent that these cases are as rare as cases of rabies? In addition, it almost only affects babies AT BIRTH (in countries with low hygiene rates) and the elderly.

http://www.humanite.fr/la-rage-gare-son ... nce-608273

http://opac.invs.sante.fr/doc_num.php?explnum_id=8306
« During these four years, a total of 36 cases of tetanus were reported, of which 11 died, representing a fatality of 31%. The distribution of cases is as follows: 3 in 2008, 9 in 2009, 15 in 2010 and 9 in 2011, corresponding respectively to an incidence of reported cases of 0,05, 0,14, 0,23 and 0,14 cases per million inhabitants. The cases mainly concern elderly people (86% are 70 years old or more) and women (75%). The annual incidence by sex is, respectively: 0,09 cases per million for women and 0 for men in 2008, 0,24 and 0,03 in 2009, 0,27 and 0,19 in 2010, and 0,21 and 0,06 in 2011. Regarding the front door, these were injuries (66,7% of cases), or chronic wounds (25%). In 8,3% of cases, the gateway was not identified. ALL THE CASES WERE NO OR IMPROPERLY VACCINATED. »[*] [*]

Either over 1 year, 2.75 deaths on average and an average M / F of 80.5% or 2.2 deaths among the elderly and therefore 0.5 deaths for the rest of the population or 1 in 130.000.000. a real thing of phew!

diphtheria:
http://invs.santepubliquefrance.fr/Doss ... iologiques.

polio
http://invs.santepubliquefrance.fr/Doss ... 12-11-2013

: In France, the last case of indigenous poliomyelitis dates back to 1989 and the last case imported in 1995, both concerning adults.
These are figures, coming from official website therefore. You can do the same for everything else!

[*] It reminds something!
[*] [*] I underlined poorly vaccinated because this formulation is tasty when we look for what this statement means!

[pedrodelavega]

So you think vaccines are effective.

You take me for a ball with such big strings.

Well no: I ask you if you are against vaccines, you answer me "absolutely not".
For example, if you ask me if I am for or against homeopathy, I would answer you: Against because it is not effective. Simple

Do you think the vaccines are effective ?!

Yes.

So you've always had them all done with all his reminders

Yes or at least if I skipped it (but I don't think so), it is out of oblivion or laxity and surely not conspiratorial conviction.

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

nico hello

FYI what does it give the figures (in France) AND causes the deaths caused by diseases for which we still vaccinate or more elsewhere?

Oulalah! this is a big, a huge subject (we are more than 60 pages) that will leave you hungry since it is controversial, but you never know if you can do it sorting!
Otherwise, go to the official website, INPES, the only indisputable source for those obsessed with scientifically and above all officially admitted. Then, for comparison, on sites that say otherwise and make a personal opinion.

Ok I'll go see.

nico hello

What are the arguments of all (? If I understood correctly) European countries (or even others) not to practice compulsory vaccination anymore?

it is not a question of argument but of realism: when serial accidents occur States must respond to the information needs, not misleading, of the populations who worry.
In regimes where there is no democracy, it is the authoritarian (authoritarian) and arbitrary decision which imposes its will without explanation. [*]
With us, which are supposed to be a democracy which intends to respect its own laws, it is the conscience clause which ensures the population not to be under a totalitarian regime and guaranteed by the principles stated above and which I repeat therefore:
• Article 3 of the declaration of human rights-
• civil code which recognizes the principle of respect for the integrity of the human body-
• Nurenberg code (http://www.frqsc.gouv.qc.ca/documents/1 ... 8f14f4e6d5
• Article 36 of the medical code of ethics
• The various judgments of the Court on transparent information due to patients
• The Kouchner law which says that no medical procedure can be performed without the free and informed consent of the person
• Article 1111 of public health which says that every citizen has the right to freedom to accept or refuse a medical procedure.

Is vaccination a medical procedure? Can a regime that flouts these basic rules be declared democratic? This is where we should start, the figures come after in confirmation or denial.
In practical terms, these countries considered that certain diseases had almost or completely disappeared and therefore that there was no longer any reason to impose them, in the current state of affairs. With us it is the BCG (with great difficulty but it was an urgent request of the pediatricians vaccinators) and the smallpox which were suppressed and therefore there remains only the DTP. (in France only) How will Europe harmonize all this?
Already, tetanus is not a communicable disease, no more than rabies and one is imposed and not the other: why? To the extent that these cases are as rare as cases of rabies? In addition, it almost only affects babies AT BIRTH (in countries with low hygiene rates) and the elderly.

http://www.humanite.fr/la-rage-gare-son ... nce-608273

http://opac.invs.sante.fr/doc_num.php?explnum_id=8306
« During these four years, a total of 36 cases of tetanus were reported, of which 11 died, representing a fatality of 31%. The distribution of cases is as follows: 3 in 2008, 9 in 2009, 15 in 2010 and 9 in 2011, corresponding respectively to an incidence of reported cases of 0,05, 0,14, 0,23 and 0,14 cases per million inhabitants. The cases mainly concern elderly people (86% are 70 years old or more) and women (75%). The annual incidence by sex is, respectively: 0,09 cases per million for women and 0 for men in 2008, 0,24 and 0,03 in 2009, 0,27 and 0,19 in 2010, and 0,21 and 0,06 in 2011. Regarding the front door, these were injuries (66,7% of cases), or chronic wounds (25%). In 8,3% of cases, the gateway was not identified. ALL THE CASES WERE NO OR IMPROPERLY VACCINATED. »[*] [*]

Either over 1 year, 2.75 deaths on average and an average M / F of 80.5% or 2.2 deaths among the elderly and therefore 0.5 deaths for the rest of the population or 1 in 130.000.000. a real thing of phew!

diphtheria:
http://invs.santepubliquefrance.fr/Doss ... iologiques.

polio
http://invs.santepubliquefrance.fr/Doss ... 12-11-2013

: In France, the last case of indigenous poliomyelitis dates back to 1989 and the last case imported in 1995, both concerning adults.
These are figures, coming from official website therefore. You can do the same for everything else!

[*] It reminds something!
[*] [*] I underlined poorly vaccinated because this formulation is tasty when we look for what this statement means!

Damn then I thought you would answer instead of this blah blah 100 times rehashed ...

So bis repetita if anyone knows on what beliefs, I suppose medical, are based on the states for which vaccination is optional I am interested.

[Janic]

nico hello

the only indisputable source for those obsessed with scientifically and above all officially admitted. Then, for comparison, on sites that say otherwise and make a personal opinion.

Ok I'll go see.

Good luck!

Damn then I thought you would answer instead of this blah blah 100 times rehashed ...

I thought I had opened a line of thought above:
In practical terms, these countries considered that certain diseases had almost or completely disappeared and therefore that there was no longer any reason to impose them, in the current state of affairs. With us it is the BCG (with great difficulty but it was an urgent request of the pediatricians vaccinators) and the smallpox which were suppressed and therefore there remains only the DTP. (in France only) How will Europe harmonize all this?
As well as :

What are the arguments of all (? If I understood correctly) European countries (or even others) not to practice compulsory vaccination anymore?

it is not a question of argument but of realism when serial accidents occur States must respond to the information needs, not misleading, to the populations who worry. In regimes where there is no democracy, it is the authoritarian (authoritarian) and arbitrary decision which imposes its will.
What more can be said ?
However, I understand you but it is almost impossible to summarize in a few lapidary sentences what requires studies and comparisons without which it would only be a headache or dogmatism. There are things that require time, reflection, questioning and this cannot be done at the click of a finger.

So bis repetita if anyone knows on what beliefs, I suppose medical, are based on the states for which vaccination is optional I am interested.

Conversely you can ask yourself the question: " on which beliefs, I suppose medical, are based the States for which vaccination is compulsory I am interested. And compare to the others! However, and you can see it, on any system whatsoever in all areas of life, these work on the carrot / stick system and no question of trying to escape from it or it is banishment of this company! After each one makes his choices in conscience… except when the system prohibits them by punishing all those who walk out of the nails as in any totalitarian system!

It is, moreover, this notion of consciousness that counts most, much more than pseudoscientific arguments that everyone can make up for it.
It is rather necessary to place yourself in a real situation:
a) I am not sick with one of these pathologies that vaccines are supposed to protect. Naturally, I want to avoid them and the system offers me miracle products that will protect me. So I take it, without asking myself any questions since the system has brought its own.
b) I trusted the system and unfortunately my children fell ill anyway and I ask the system why? Which answers: move around there is nothing to do, the systems never work 100% and you are one of those exceptions. Okay, but you have forced this vaccination. What are you doing to help us with my autistic child, encephalic, in a wheelchair? Nothing because you would have to prove that it is because of ... and scientifically it has not been proven, etc.
Because it does not only happen to others!
c) There is an epidemic and I have not had my child vaccinated and here he is affected by it. Was I a bad parent for not having this one protected?
d) During this same epidemic, the little neighbor vaccinated and revaccinated also fell ill! Is the vaccine useless then? Did I do well then not to have vaccinated my child since in the neighbor it was useless, etc ...
Parents are faced with a difficult choice of conscience Whatever decision is made: surrender to the system or rebel against it with the same risks for the child and that no scientific or pseudo-scientific argument can answer. Certain States have privileged this right of conscience by legislative texts, contradicted by other legislative texts as in France: where are the truth, justice, ethics in all that?

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

the great art of not responding ...

On the site I found, at random, deaths due to tetanus but this is of no interest if we do not know if these deceased people were up to date with their vaccines or not: which would already give a little bit element.

[Janic]

Nico

the great art of not responding ...

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not the only one!

On the site I found, at random, deaths due to tetanus but this is of no interest if we do not know if these deceased people were up to date with their vaccines or not: which would already give a little bit element.

you're in the middle of it, but be patient when you get all read and compared it will clear up. Even at the end of almost half a century when I have been the subject closely, I am far from knowing everything!
As a reminder (to fill it up) there is only one official site (the old INPES which makes the most of its information from INSERM) and you have to start there and there is already enough keep your long winter evenings ... sorry summer.

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

It does not advance us much for the other European states ...