Make a vertical wind turbine to generator

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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 10/04/11, 00:52

Dedeleco you told me about hysteresis, about the demagnetization of the magnet when the coil becomes strongly magnetic, you can give me the formulas to use

The formulas are those on:
a) properties of the magnets:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimant_permanent
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magn%C3%A9tisme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermagnet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductor

finally the field created by a coil is:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spire_de_courant

56 turns with 20A on a diameter of 3,6cm give 32KA / m which must be much lower than the coercive field of 862KA / m (fairly well checked), because otherwise the magnet is demagnetized.
So that will not happen but there is a weak hysteresis cycle around the residual field, which will heat up a bit, but there is not enough information to calculate.
Also since the magnet is conductive, there are eddy currents in it which heat it up a bit.
Hazard :
How to remove a finger with two super magnets
http://scienceblogs.com/sciencepunk/200 ... ith_tw.php


Do you know how to know if the section of the wire is too large compared to the density of the flux of the magnet?

The wire section has no direct relationship with the magnet.
The section of the wire fixes its resistance for the length of the wire, which determines the current in short circuit and the power dissipated in the wire of the coil, but the residual induction fixes the induced voltages
We calculate it with:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9sis ... t%C3%A9%29
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A9sistivit%C3%A9


A fairly similar study example in terms of methods on magnet motors:
http://artur.univ-fcomte.fr/ST/ELECTRO/ ... llegee.pdf
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bidouille23
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by bidouille23 » 10/04/11, 15:05

Hello ,

thank you Dedelco it is this image of the finger that I was also looking to show the danger :( not enough attention, a second is enough, so no child around nothing metalic nothing that can attract or be attracted, and have the cat kicked out :) it's for his own good (not real kitty :) ).

I also find that the vacuum wind turbine is downright super nice and it seems to not work badly, as it is explained, we can no longer really compare the yields, given the number of other advantages.

what dimensions do stp MaTe magnets?

like for the winding;)

http://www.jdl68160.com/jauges_awg.pdf

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

see you
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MatEA57
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by MatEA57 » 10/04/11, 18:50

Thank you Dedeleco, I'm going to read all of this, I hope to understand your result on the coercive excitement of demagnetization.

Ah hi hack! the sizes of the magnets, I think between 2 and 4cm of dia but not exceeding 20kg of force because I am afraid for my fingers LOL thank you Dedeleco for the warning with illustration!
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MatEA57
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by MatEA57 » 15/04/11, 17:52

I come back to the first calculation giving the number of turns:

"The number of turns which fixes the tension is for these dimensions of 1,5cm by (5-3) / 2 = 1,5cm"

I understand it's 1,5 (5-3) / 2 but how do you get 3?

Knowing that the inside diameter is 2cm and the outside is 5cm, the height 1,5cm.

I come back to this calculation because I am afraid of making a big mistake.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 15/04/11, 22:17

I made a mistake while writing:
Your number of turns which fixes the tension is for these dimensions of 1,5cm by (5-3) / 2 = 1,5cm and wire of 0,2cm in diameter of (1,5 / 0,2) ^ 2 = 56 max so well wound with great care.

I actually wanted to write: (5-2) / 2 = 3/2 = 1,5cm which is correct and the 3 is a clerical error or slip of the tongue on my part when copying with the 3 of 5-2 = 3 which is in place of the 2 !!

You are absolutely right to check and understand everything with great care, to avoid any possible error, by all of us.

Once you understand, you can change dimensions to suit your needs. Take a safety margin and even measure with a coil passing quickly at the speed provided in front of a magnet the transient voltage (at least its max) or by rotating the coil on a drill with collecting brushes.
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MatEA57
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by MatEA57 » 16/04/11, 00:51

OK well received !
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bidouille23
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by bidouille23 » 16/04/11, 11:03

Bonjour,

a little extra thing that can explain many other things very well explained by Nlc

https://www.econologie.com/forums/moteur-ele ... 10684.html


Kt and KV revoila them;).

I am neither an engineer nor a physicist and suddenly not lulled by calculations of all kinds actually :) , but I don't think I'm too far from understanding the effects;).

Your Kt and Kv are the Coefs which will give you the "limits" (I don't know if it is correctly said) of your generator, so try to take them into account for your tests.

Dedelco when you say:

"Measure the transient voltage (at least its max) with a coil passing quickly at the intended speed in front of a magnet or by rotating the coil on a drill with collector brushes."

don't you think that spinning a disc with two magnets, or a magnet and a flyweight) wouldn't be easier;), either a disc mounted on a drill, and no collector turning of course, right?)?

see you
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 16/04/11, 12:28

It can obviously rotate the magnet, simpler for a magnet but with the coil it will have a magnetometer allowing to quickly test the magnets without sticking or wedging them securely.

When to discuss endlessly about the best wheel motor, it seems useless to me without having all the details of the motor and its electronics which allows to make lots of adjustments at best, impossible without electronics.

At the level of understanding without equations, the best and the first is Faraday (wikipedia) and read all the strange experiences at the time that he performed which have resulted in decades of imaginative work culminating with Maxwell, who has shown that light is the same electromagnetic phenomenon, paving the way for radio and cell phones and also for field theory and quantum mechanics.
The induction law changes the forces between conductors and magnets, depending on the speed of the study reference system and which is only explained logically and clearly by relativity, with forces depending on the speed !!

Put two stationary charges in a train which attract electrostatically, in the repository of the train track at 350Km / h (or 11Km / s in a satellite) these two charges are also 2 electric currents which by the law of induction attract each other more (like two currents in copper wires) and therefore the total force between the charges changes according to the study reference system and this basic problem puzzled physicists and mathematicians (like Poincarré) until 1905, with Einstein who explained with the relativity and the speed of light unchanged whatever the speed at which we move with time, the dimensions and forces which are not unchanged !!
The law of induction (relativistic phenomenon) is a main experimental proof on our scale of relativity, forgotten in the usual explanations.
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MatEA57
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by MatEA57 » 13/05/11, 14:25

Hello, I come back to the subject : Cheesy:

so I buy a second hand oscilloscope which is to calibrate completely MDR but I will do with it, because it's just to see the shape of the signal ...

I have magnets, which injured my finger MDR a great pinch, you always need an accident to understand what we are doing!

I have a tube mast and some parts.

I still need copper wire, plates, resin.

I hope to see the end of the project 8)
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vinzman
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by vinzman » 13/05/11, 18:35

I was also on the project to make a discoid alternator but when I saw the manufacturing quality of this American company, I changed my mind and I ordered one of their alternator.

What disgusts me the most is that I bought magnets for nothing, I made special records for nothing, I bought vinyl esther resin for nothing, but at least I I'm going to have a super robust current generator, with metal coil cores.
I think however to make a discoidal generator but it will be a secondary generator.


Image

http://www.mwands.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=7
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