Is it necessary to work gratis unemployed (TIG)

philosophical debates and companies.
User avatar
jlt22
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 414
Registration: 04/04/09, 13:37
Location: Guingamp 69 years




by jlt22 » 10/11/10, 23:48

Christopher said:

Now I am not against compensation for the compensated ... but in this case, we do it for ALL the compensated: long illnesses, disabled, retired, young scholars ... etc etc ...

There is no reason...

In this regard: should I remember that retirees weigh much more heavily in social systems than the unemployed ... Ben what they have paid for? Well yes just like the unemployed ...


When I work I contribute to unemployment insurance and for retirement, which is a deferred salary, have I always learned.

This deferred salary, some do not have the chance to touch it (premature death), others will be able to benefit greatly from it (centenary); it is true that there is a certain form of injustice there.

For unemployment insurance, you contribute for a certain period of contribution proportional to your contribution time. When you exceed your allotted time for compensation, you become a long-term unemployed.
There are certainly unemployed people who are choosy and who would like to find an equivalent salary right away, while the company offering them a job is not at the same level.
Others are difficult to adapt.
There are unfortunately many others who do not have sufficient training which would open many doors for them. Very often this is where the shoe pinches;
companies should be obliged to have their staff carry out internships allowing them to acquire greater openness.

In most schools, including vocational schools, students are not taught job search techniques, make CVs, cover letters adapted to different advertisements, interview simulations.
If they had this knowledge many might not end up long-term unemployed

For my part, 25 years ago (I have 64), I was dismissed, when I thought my path mapped out until retirement. I was in the merchant marine, and French legislation having changed, the shipowners began to relocate.

I had a very good salary, then a good unemployment benefit, then after 3 months of intensive research, nothing on the horizon.
Unemployed is a difficult situation, especially when you have school children. So I started looking for a bit of everything, in order to prove my desire to work again and stay in the working world.

So I accepted a position (in the printing press) where my net salary was half of my unemployment benefit, I drooled a little, but after 18 months, I was 3/4 of my unemployment benefit (by going regularly to ask the boss for a raise). I had invested in professional books in order to fully understand the profession and try to be unbeatable.

After 2 years, I changed company (SAV printing) with a promotion, but, I had to leave my native Brittany with family and luggage.

7 years later, relicenciement, then repatriation to Brittany where I am taken up in my 1st printing house, which had changed heads in the meantime.
I ended my active life there and don't regret anything.

Unemployed must be a job at full-time if you want to have a chance to find something, and remember that the job center provides barely 30% of the jobs filled.
There are also thousands of unfilled jobs every year.

The unfortunate thing in all of this is that the unemployed person who has become long-term, generally puts it in his head that he will find nothing.
He relaxes his discipline of life, does not get up in the morning, is no longer interested in much, no longer looks for anything or wrong.

The goal of making these long-term unemployed work is to get them used to a discipline of life, to try to revive them.
The idea in itself is good, but having them work with ridiculous compensation will not motivate them.
They must be made to work 2 or 3 hours a day, in the morning, preferably from 8 am and pay these hours at the minimum wage.
0 x
boubka
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 950
Registration: 10/08/07, 17:22
x 2




by boubka » 11/11/10, 01:46

For unemployment insurance, you contribute for a certain period of contribution proportional to your contribution time. When you exceed your allotted time for compensation, you become a long-term unemployed.


ok, so i don't see where the bp is to make work a long-term unemployed.
there is no job, I admit it but when you are 40 and you barely have 6 months of work in your life there is a big problem!
exceptional case you will tell me .... in my small town I know at least 10 .... unemployed rmiste pro :frown:
0 x
User avatar
jlt22
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 414
Registration: 04/04/09, 13:37
Location: Guingamp 69 years




by jlt22 » 11/11/10, 10:49

when you are 40 and you barely have 6 months of work in your life there is a big problem!
exceptional case you will tell me .... in my small town I know at least 10 .... unemployed rmiste pro


Indeed, there are abuses on this side, in any system there are fraudsters. There are also some who seem to stay at RMI and work full time under the table, like that no taxes, no charges and all benefits (CMU)
It is true that the long-term unemployed and unemployed should not be able to refuse any job. In all regions of France, there are seasonal jobs paid at the minimum wage and often done by foreigners, because there are no French volunteers.
It is true, a real problem.
0 x
User avatar
Obamot
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 28725
Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
Location: regio genevesis
x 5538




by Obamot » 11/11/10, 12:21

Should the unemployed be made to work for free / [unemployed]


No way! It would harm "time spent" and "concentration" requireds for their job search. Since having an "activity", it is as if we were reducing their period of unemployment! It is therefore a certain risk of plunging them back into precariousness later, arriving suddenly at the end of the law, it would become a disaster ...

They shouldn't be forced either, because for those who can't find LE work they are looking for, it is very often the only source of income they have to turn around and possibly start a self-employed activity without borrowing (which would also push them even more into precariousness ...)

As many have noted, the situation of being unemployed when it is not his fault is probably one of the biggest ordeals of our time! Let's avoid as much as possible that it turns into a nightmare.

Finally legally, unemployment having the function that we know him, if we made the unemployed work, it would have to be called that differently and especially that it does not encroach on the right to benefits, nor diminishes their duration by any way.

Here we are at the heart of the problem! In view of the above it is not really possible to "put them to work against their will", there would only be the solution to ask them if they would accept another option, another way of seeing ...

It would then be necessary to create a new statute - based on volunteering - concerning "an intermediate period prior to becoming unemployed ...", who could be called "job candidate benefit", and that the work is remunerated in a suitable way, for example for 3 months ... then yes, that would even be excellent, because it would allow this "candidate" to "see it coming", to be better prepared for this. which will happen to him by placing him in a "situation of choosing" and not of "requester", therefore in a better position to negotiate a place, instead of being in a position of weakness, which generally kills motivation a lot. Mentally better armed in this way, this would undoubtedly allow the candidate to better face a situation - often experienced as very painful - by placing him in a position where he would feel better valued! This is all the difference between "person" fired " VS someone's situation "still having a choice"! .... the nuance is great!

Volunteering would also help "enhance the motivation of the candidate": and there, no doubt for some, that would change everything ...
0 x
User avatar
manet42
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 631
Registration: 22/11/08, 17:40
Location: Lorraine




by manet42 » 11/11/10, 14:00

To avoid this idea being repeated in France. it suffices to put as a condition that our dear unemployed deputies 5 years after their re-election are subject to the same rule and are obliged to put their hands in the M ... E

JC
0 x
Continually trying we finally succeed. So more it fails, the more likely it is that it works.
bernardd
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2278
Registration: 12/12/09, 10:10
x 1




by bernardd » 11/11/10, 14:25

This subject is in total opposition to the political proposal for a universal basic income.

A film presents this proposal:
http://www.kultkino.ch/kultkino/besonde ... _francaise

A book has also just been published:
http://bien-ch.ch/fr/node/198

The basic idea is, on the contrary, that every human has the right to a basic income, without any compensation, just as he has the right to existence, and to the air he breathes.

One of the means of financing is equal participation in the management of the common currency:
http://www.creationmonetaire.info/2010/ ... ie-10.html
0 x
See you soon !
User avatar
Obamot
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 28725
Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
Location: regio genevesis
x 5538




by Obamot » 11/11/10, 15:07

I like guys who have the courage to take problems "At the base"!

- universal basic income ...
- universal dividend ...

What about "Man's motivation at work", studied in particular by:

- Douglas Mc Gregor: "Motivation theory" (or the three "con" of Mac Grégor: "to lead, to constrain, to control" ie summary of "Theory X and theory Y")
- Frederick Herzberg "Enhancing factors / motivation and / or environmental factors / hygiene".
- Maslow "Pyramid of needs" (and or "Z theory")
... and a few others ...

Which makes me think about the merits of such "universality"... What about "frame" in which she would shed herself? What about the "inter-regional disparity"? What about the "economic disparity?" Of course if we consider a leveling of these within the framework of a "fairer world", what about short or medium term priorities ... Not so simple!
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 11/11/10, 16:23

what a horror universal income! paid by whom? additional charges for the few who are still working?

It makes you think of RMI in Guyana: there are some who find the RMI sufficient to live, why work ...

I say something else: replace the right to unemployment benefits with the right to work:

launch major works, build all kinds of things, housing, factories, properly exploit the forests, exploit all natural energy even costly in labor ... and outright elimination of unemployment benefits since there will have work for everyone

I will be even more radical ... removal of the minimum wage, which is no longer useful since the minimum wage is not even enough to live properly ... replacement with a real right to housing ... a real right to medical care, which currently no longer exists
0 x
User avatar
Obamot
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 28725
Registration: 22/08/09, 22:38
Location: regio genevesis
x 5538




by Obamot » 11/11/10, 16:59

Yes, Chatelot, but coming from Bernardd (as probably from many benevolent members of this fo-fo) it can only start from an excellent intention and deserves to study the track.

chatelot16 wrote:what a horror universal income! paid by whom? additional charges for the few who are still working?

It makes you think of RMI in Guyana: there are some who find the RMI sufficient to live, why work ...

This is one of the questions ... There is however a regulation, and "a need to work" to integrate socially. In addition, the life expectancy of a "non-worker" would be much less ... a question of physiology relating to health itself, idleness is counterproductive: it is therefore not very desirable in Indeed ... Because who says idleness, often says obesity and other ills, hence the increase in pathologies and explosion of costs due to diseases ... A real vicious circle!

chatelot16 wrote:I say something else: replace the right to unemployment benefits with the right to work:

Somewhere, apart from the proposal "Without any consideration", it's the same. Besides, I think it is a famous German industrial pharmacist who is behind this proposal.
I sincerely think that the vast majority of people would not fall into idleness (we can still trust the good will of human beings) so a lot of pathology due to work, to mobbing (etc) would disappear, and in the end it there would be a rebalancing due to the reorientation of human activity! But it deserves to be studied carefully! Because if there are mismatches, the consequences can be dramatic (ie blunder in the remedy, worse than the disease). On the other hand, for the measure to be applicable, it would have to be introduced everywhere at the same time (at least on the scale of the legitimate inhabitants of a country ...) and that is not an easy task affair so that it enters the customs and that the legislator, not only writes the law ... but manages to make it enter into force ... It is therefore not tomorrow the day before ... But what does it matter, Paris does didn't happen overnight, as we say ...

chatelot16 wrote:launch major works, build all kinds of things, housing, factories, properly exploit the forests, exploit all natural energy even costly in labor ... and outright elimination of unemployment benefits since there will have work for everyone

... yes but to make the state one “Angel employer”, wouldn't work either ... : Mrgreen: We must remember what had become at one time, the firm of Louis ReNault ... (ie Régie Nationale ...)

chatelot16 wrote:I will be even more radical ... removal of the minimum wage, which is no longer useful since the minimum wage is not even enough to live properly ... replacement with a real right to housing ... a real right to medical care, which currently no longer exists

What a scandal that basic medical care is not free, indeed!
0 x
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749




by sen-no-sen » 11/11/10, 17:27

lv13r wrote:I think unemployment and wanted by capitalist governments (right or left) and I would say even maintained because it allows to divide the people and put people one against the other
divide and rule
lionel


Unemployment is directly linked to the country's structural economy.
In France it fluctuates between 8 and 11% on average.
It is not entirely wrong to speak of "wanted unemployment".
I would rather say "opportunistic unemployment", because at a high rate, it represents a form of fear for the employee,who even poorly paid, should not complain about his situation...
Unemployment thus represents a form of unacknowledged repression of the economic system.
In a consumer society that pushes compulsive buying, how can you be motivated by work (very often uninteresting) that cannot even satisfy this (false) need?
It is not surprising then to see a growing renunciation, towards work.
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Society and Philosophy"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 306 guests