totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!

Books, television programs, films, magazines or music to share, counselor to discover ... Talk to news affecting in any way the econology, environment, energy, society, consumption (new laws or standards) ...
User avatar
Exnihiloest
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5365
Registration: 21/04/15, 17:57
x 660

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by Exnihiloest » 03/07/17, 23:16

sen-no-sen wrote:...
Daesh is a direct consequence of the interference of the American-Western bloc in the Middle East, if you do not agree bring me reverse proofs ...
The Islamic revolution having allowed the coming to power of Ayatollah Khomeini was in time a consequence of this interference, too.
...

It is the good-will that I read almost everywhere in the thought of the left, but not among those who know this culture well, like Salman Rushdie or Wafa Sultan. Unfortunately to refuse their responsibility to the Moslems by pretending that nothing would be their fault but all that of the West, besides that I see it as a form of racism because supposing that these populations would not be emancipated, does not hold water.

We do not judge history with the criteria grids of the present. At one time colonialism and expansionism was the rule, not only for economic or purely political questions, but also for ideals. The Muslim world also had its expansionist and slavery era until 1968 for Saudi Arabia and 1980 for Mauritania! From these times from which we returned, the West has significant problems only with the Muslims. The Indians, although colonized by the English, do not criticize it today, neither the Chinese, nor the Koreans, nor the Vietnamese whom France has nevertheless occupied.

Why do all these peoples live on good terms with the West today, and not Muslim countries? A question of culture, and necessarily, a question of religion. I do not see an interview with an ordinary Muslim, in Syria for example, which is not punctuated with "God willing". Same even on forum French speakers from Morocco or Algeria. How can we want to do anything, if we constantly rely on external conditions?

Then and above all, when the only thing that would distinguish you from others is your religion, there is a vice: identification with your religion. "Are you insulting my religion? So you insult me ​​so I cut your throat"You can have a religion, without being your religion.
The problem for Muslims is the question: "what could bring us together and which is not religion? Something we would have done and be proud of? Something that would unite us towards a common ideal? Something we would have and the rest of the world would envy and benefit from?"For at least the last five centuries, to the first two questions there are no answers. To the last question, sorry for my sarcastic cynicism, apart from oil, I don't see anything. Their 'identityism' is is religion.

When I see atheists living openly in Muslim countries, or homosexuals, when I see that the laws of Muslim countries will no longer be based on this discrimination between men and women directly extracted from the Koran, when freedom of expression is possible there, when Muslims prefer to build their own countries, live in them rather than squat others, and improve their standard of living, I will no longer oppose Western civilization to them. In the meantime, I defend it, and less against them than against those who spit in the soup.
0 x
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by sen-no-sen » 03/07/17, 23:37

Exnihiloest wrote:It is the good-will that I read almost everywhere in the thought of the left, but not among those who know this culture well, like Salman Rushdie or Wafa Sultan. Unfortunately to refuse their responsibility to the Moslems by pretending that nothing would be their fault but all that of the West, besides that I see it as a form of racism because supposing that these populations would not be emancipated, does not hold water.


Accusatory reversal ... your analysis is based on the thinking of typical right sores E. Zemmour...
You obviously operate an amalgam between Daesh and the Muslims .... except there was question of Daesh in my remark ...
It’s up to you to show me historical proof that Daesh has nothing to do with the war in Iraq, I’m waiting! 8)

From these times from which we returned, the West has significant problems only with the Muslims. The Indians, although colonized by the English, do not blame them today, neither the Chinese, nor the Koreans, nor the Vietnamese whom France has nevertheless occupied.


Any problem?
You would not confuse here the Arab world and the Muslim world?
: Arrow: reminder, the Muslim world is from Morocco to Indonesia (alone this country has 13% of the Muslims in the world).

For the rest it is analysis worthy of secular response...
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by Janic » 04/07/17, 08:48

Accusatory reversal ... your analysis is based on the thought of right sores like E. Zemmour ...
You obviously operate an amalgam between Daesh and the Muslims .... except there was question of Daesh in my remark ...

I see that after complaining about the confusion between Muslim pacifists and terrorists, that between Muslims and Arabs, I am no longer the only one ... or almost!
From these times from which we returned, the West has significant problems only with the Muslims. The Indians, although colonized by the English, do not blame them today, neither the Chinese, nor the Koreans, nor the Vietnamese whom France has nevertheless occupied.
Today only! All the difference is there! Under English colonialism the Indians posed problems too (they did not like this colonization lowering them to the only role of slave like for the blacks. So will know why they did not like this situation!? There are people who are never happy with their fate!), the Indians and the blacks of America too. You may never have heard of KKK!
Likewise, France today no longer takes issue with the German occupation, nor with its hereditary enemy England ... after the fact.
When I see atheists living openly in Muslim countries, or homosexuals, when I see that the laws of Muslim countries will no longer be based on this discrimination between men and women directly extracted from the Koran, when freedom of expression is possible, when Muslims prefer to build their own countries, live in them rather than squat others, and improve their standard of living, I will no longer oppose Western civilization to them. In the meantime, I defend it, and less against them than against those who spit in the soup

Discrimination between men and women is still not resolved in our country, heir to the "lights" (rather extinct), this discrimination in France does not come from the Koran. Free expression is limited by media channels to orders (except internet for now)? Western civilization in America resulted in the extermination of the Indians and the theft of their ancestral territories, Western civilization favored and maintained slavery, discrimination between men and women (the right to vote of women was granted by a country "Muslim" while it continued to be banned in France, women did not have the right to have a personal account, etc.) You are ill-advised to play the blind on our own situation hardly brighter than countries with different cultures.
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
User avatar
Exnihiloest
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5365
Registration: 21/04/15, 17:57
x 660

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by Exnihiloest » 04/07/17, 21:45

sen-no-sen wrote:...
For the rest it is analysis worthy of secular response...

Excellent site.
Believe that there is a second degree and subtleties to the greater or lesser integration in the civil laws of all Muslim countries, of the Koran, or that human rights would be a universal and innate notion of which only one factor external would be the cause of rejection in some, is a dangerous belief. It was also believed in the 30s that "Mr. Hitler," as he was called at the time, would remain reasonable and not drag the world into war. We saw the rest. Come on, give up your Godwin points ... :frown:
0 x
User avatar
Exnihiloest
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5365
Registration: 21/04/15, 17:57
x 660

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by Exnihiloest » 04/07/17, 21:51

Janic wrote:...
Discrimination between men and women is still unresolved in our country, heir to the "enlightenment" ...

It is regulated in principle and in institutions: the law does not discriminate between men and women, unlike that of Muslim countries.
That in practice the Western system is not perfect cannot justify this dishonest amalgam with the dispositions of Muslim countries, I even feel it as a gerbatory.
0 x
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by Janic » 05/07/17, 08:27

It is regulated in principle and in institutions: the law does not discriminate between men and women, unlike that of Muslim countries.

Law no 2014-873 of 4 August 2014 for equality real between women and men is a French law which aims to combat inequalities between women and men. It was adopted by Parliament on July 23, 2014 and promulgated on August 4, 2014.

Damn you would have thought that it had existed for at least a century, but no, it was only 3 years old. What a huge advance in such a short time! :(
Then clearly indicates a Muslim law discriminating men / women.

Countries predominantly Muslim have already had female heads of state or government: Benazir Bhutto in Pakistan, Mame Madior Boye in Senegal, Tansu Çiller in Turkey, Kaqusha Jashari (en) in Kosovo, Megawati Sukarnoputri in Indonesia, as well as Khaleda Zia and Sheikh Hasina in Bangladesh. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B4le ... _l%27islam

on the other hand in France, a secular country, no head of state, nor female prime minister since the origin of the Republic. Are we more sexist than Muslims?
That in practice the Western system is not perfect cannot justify this dishonest amalgam with the dispositions of Muslim countries, I even feel it as a gerbatory
what is gerbatory is your racist prose!
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by sen-no-sen » 06/07/17, 11:51

Exnihiloest wrote:Excellent site.
Believe that there is a second degree and subtleties to the greater or lesser integration in the civil laws of all Muslim countries, of the Koran, or that human rights would be a universal and innate notion of which only one factor external would be the cause of rejection in some, is a dangerous belief. It was also believed in the 30s that "Mr. Hitler," as he was called at the time, would remain reasonable and not drag the world into war. We saw the rest. Come on, give up your Godwin points ... :frown:


We do not have the same values... : Mrgreen:
You make an unfortunate confusion between two fundamental points: the cultural backwardness of the Moslem world with respect to the global acceleration and terrorism.
Islam did not make a deep overhaul in its way of approaching the texts which found its doctrine, something more or less acquired in Christianity and Judaism.
Almost normal thing, it is the religion of the Book (testamentary therefore) the youngest (1400 years!).
This in fact causes a certain delay in the Muslim world.
Recently the Doctor Farrukh Saleem* (Muslim) noted the fact that the Muslim world produced almost no scientist, a shame for a world that from the outset made contributions to mathematics, astronomy, medicine etc ...!

However, a delay is not necessarily synonymous with terrorism, it constitutes a favorable breeding ground for it, it is still necessary to implant the seeds of discord ... who to bring them?
Some graphics are better than a thousand speeches ...

Image

Evolution of terrorism over the 2000/2013 period.


Image

Evolution of terrorism over the period 1979/2001 in Iraq.

What happened in Iraq over the period 2003/2011?


* NB: politically very incorrect but so true: Why are the Jews so powerful and the Muslims so helpless?
https://eplume.wordpress.com/2011/03/11/pourquoi-les-juifs-sont-si-puissants-et-les-musulmans-si-impuissants/
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
Janic
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 19224
Registration: 29/10/10, 13:27
Location: bourgogne
x 3491

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by Janic » 06/07/17, 12:40

all civilizations had their auspicious period and broke their faces, it's historic. Judaism is particular in the sense that it does not exist as a nation, but as a people spread across the whole earth, which forced them to stick together with one common point: their bible at all make and therefore the reference to the verb and thus to the writing thus requiring, at least, to know how to read and write, which was not the case of all the other cultures, of which France among others. Hence the obscurantism of Catholicism like that of Islam over long periods.
But like all that has the best, it is compensated by the worst and the current Judaism is not to be outdone, religious or not for that matter, because all the Jews are not necessarily believers so far and their works questionable too, like other religions or systems coming from men.
0 x
"We make science with facts, like making a house with stones: but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a pile of stones is a house" Henri Poincaré
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79322
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 11043

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by Christophe » 07/07/17, 12:28

sen-no-sen wrote:Some graphics are better than a thousand speeches ...


These figures somewhat contradict those where Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan cumulate more than 80% of the victims of terrorism between 2001-2014 Company-and-philosophy / history-of-victims-of-terror-in-europe-from-facts 1970-vs-legends-t14626.html

And for Syria, in civil war for years, the case is quite delicate ... where does terrorism begin? Or do state war crimes (Syrian or IS) end?

sen-no-sen wrote:What happened in Iraq over the period 2003/2011?


Did the USA bring them "democracy and freedom"? : Cheesy:
0 x
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: Totalitarian architecture, they will destroy Mecca!




by sen-no-sen » 07/07/17, 21:36

Christophe wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:Some graphics are better than a thousand speeches ...


These figures somewhat contradict those where Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan cumulate more than 80% of the victims of terrorism between 2001-2014 Company-and-philosophy / history-of-victims-of-terror-in-europe-from-facts 1970-vs-legends-t14626.html


Contradict them?
I would say they support them.
More than 80% of the victims of terrorism are Muslims and almost 70% of the attacks take place in Muslim countries.
https://uploads.knightlab.com/storymapjs/6e4c9f245e3e4bedb83cdf00d7b13834/attentats-islamistes-en-2016/index.html

And for Syria, in civil war for years, the case is quite delicate ... where does terrorism begin? Or do state war crimes (Syrian or IS) end?


It is necessary to differentiate the deaths resulting from the conflict (bombardment, shooting) from the suicide bombings by means of IED (improvised explosive devices), car rams etc ... see the map above.

Did the USA bring them "democracy and freedom"?


The US has effectively released oil from millions of years of geological pressure ...
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.

Back to "Media & News: TV shows, reports, books, news ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 226 guests