Press review: Pantone engine, water injection and econology

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Christophe
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by Christophe » 12/04/06, 10:08

Thank you Lau for this scan!

former oceanic wrote:The Pantone works best at full load and there they vacuum test and part load. So in the worst conditions.


Well how did they plot the torque, power and cs curves in this case?

The torque curve (in both cases) has a rather singular behavior ... I have never seen one like this ...

My reactions to the article:

1) "pantone engine engineer" ... it is very good ... notice david de spad is also a self-proclaimed engineer so under these conditions ...

2) "reasonable size" ... the author apparently confuses fuel cell and AC motor supplied with H2 ...

3) Did they call Pantone?

4) Compound "etheré" ... kezako? I guess it comes from the smell of ether that I mentioned I don't know or .... except that it was in the case where gasoline was put in the reactor. Once again the author mixes everything up ...

5) The 10% by mass (of fuel I suppose) of unburned HC announced is fanciful ... at worst it is 2 to 3% ... when it smokes black ..

6) Mdr the white smoke which hides black smoke ... The author never made a painting in his youth ??? :D

7) "If it worked ..." No coment ... but it is to admit that they are aware and they will (soon) have to report to us ...

8) Yes for the distrust towards the editor ... it's been a long time since I proclaimed it: https://www.econologie.com/a-propos-des- ... -1520.html

9) Well done for putting all pantone enthusiasts in the same bag while listening to a charlot ... Too bad he didn't mention his name ...
Last edited by Christophe the 10 / 01 / 11, 15: 42, 3 edited once.
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by Christophe » 12/04/06, 10:17

lau wrote:me what "I liked" is the significant risks of corrosion linked to water vapor which seriously jeopardize the longevity of the engine !!


It’s great that you start with that because it shows the incompetence of the authors since an engine fitted with a pantone only releases 1/3 more water to the exhaust.
Pkoi? quite simply because the "normal" combustion of a liter of fuel already rejects about 1 L of water ... then to say that injecting 30% more water damages anything, you have to be paid ...:D

lau wrote:Dihydrogen bad for the engine ..


Obviously ... it will be necessary to say that to the engineer of Mercedes who made a proto of an internal combustion engine 100% with H2 in the 80s ...

lau wrote: In addition, I have no trust the Chamber of Agriculture.


I haven't dealt with them enough to have your judgment. For me they are neutral ... but put their approval on the pantone imagine a bit of the mess that it did not care? Their reaction is normal ... politically speaking. (whether it works or not)

lau wrote: And what is for them the most successful montages if there are no positive results ??? : Shock:


Well seen ! They got grilled : Wink:

lau wrote:I put this article..pardon, this rag on this topic at the request of the webmaster, I apologize!


Indeed ... pkoi should not only speak of positive articles? In this case our judgment would no longer be impartial ... even if we know where the truth is ...
Last edited by Christophe the 12 / 04 / 06, 10: 33, 1 edited once.
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by Woodcutter » 12/04/06, 10:21

There is nevertheless an interesting aspect in this article, which is as impartial in the sense of "no" as you are, those who answered, in the sense of "yes"!

This aspect is the denunciation of the mystery and the esotericism which surrounds the "Pantone system" ...

As long as there are charlatans and crooks ready to do anything to collect money from the mystery, the efforts of people who sincerely believe in trying to understand will be nullified.

In addition, I have a small question: why those which have "impressive results" with the "Pantone" montages do not make speak about them in a way so a little bit serious?
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by Woodcutter » 12/04/06, 10:24

Econology wrote:[...]
lau wrote:Dihydrogen bad for the engine ..


Obviously ... it will be necessary to say that to the engineer of Mercedes who made a proto of a 100% combustion engine with H2 in the 80s ... [...]


Bohemian rather, right?
It's their big hobby horse, the H2 internal combustion engine. It is true that I noted this stupidity too.
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by Christophe » 12/04/06, 10:30

Woodcutter wrote:Bohemian rather, right?
It's their big hobby horse, the H2 internal combustion engine. It is true that I noted this stupidity too.


Uh it's possible ... I always confuse them :D But that does not change much to the problem ...

Woodcutter wrote:As long as there are charlatans and crooks ready to do anything to collect money from the mystery, the efforts of people who sincerely believe in trying to understand will be nullified.


This is why people like that I conquer them !! And I denounce them more than all the other detractors ....

Woodcutter wrote:Why don't those who have "impressive results" with the "Pantone" montages not be talked about in such a serious way?


You mean that people with functional montages should have articles made? Well, that seems to be the case with the articles cited above, right? (France Agricole for example).

Finally there is still something that makes me laugh in all this: it is the divergence of the points of view of the journalists according to the duck in which they write ... We had found the same thing between action auto moto and autoplus.

This fact alone should encourage the neophyte to exercise caution ... one way or the other ...
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by Christophe » 12/04/06, 10:32

As the given curves seem suspicious to me I do a verification calculation on the curves ... results soon :D

This is what "torque curves" should look like

http://images.google.fr/images?q=courbe ... art=0&sa=N
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by rpsantina » 12/04/06, 10:54

If we resume André's info,
they eat too much water. 1l / h that would be equivalent to more than 10 l / h of saved Gasole ... Worse in the middle of winters with a bubbler, it does not seem to me that there have been many positive results

for the torque curve, it is taken from the PTO.
:?: for my info, someone would have a coupling diagram between the crankshaft and the PTO please ???
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by Christophe » 12/04/06, 11:03

rpsantina wrote:for the torque curve, it is taken from the PTO.


So what ? How does that change his behavior? I have never seen such a torque curve ... but the low revs are also missing ...

rpsantina wrote:for my info, someone would have a coupling diagram between the crankshaft and the PTO please ???


Uh ben there is the gearbox between which regulates the speed of the PTO at 540 or 1080 rpm. The box eats roughly 10 to 15 hp.
After that the curves are corrected with respect to this to give the power output vilo I do not know.

ps: after checking the power roughly corresponds (the power is given in kW on their curve)
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by zac » 12/04/06, 11:47

Woodcutter wrote:
In addition, I have a small question: why those which have "impressive results" with the "Pantone" montages do not make speak about them in a way so a little bit serious?


Hi lumberjacks

If you had read better everything on the pantone : Idea: (at econology), you would remember that I always have 2 or 3 vehicles available that I am ready to put on the bench (I even offer the planter or the dodo). :D
But strangely the z'officials do not hurry, the pros have too much to lose and the teaching does not want to lose face. : Mrgreen:
So the tests I do them empirically. : Cry:

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by Woodcutter » 12/04/06, 19:31

Econology wrote:As the given curves seem suspicious to me I do a verification calculation on the curves ... results soon :D

This is what "torque curves" should look like [...]
As you said after, you miss the low diets.
However, on a truck engine with a cubic capacity of about 1000 cm3 or more, the maximum torque is reached to 1100-1200 rpm if my memories are good.
So there, you have only the decreasing part of the curve, if we consider that the agricultural engines are little different from those of the PL (and there, I do not know enough).

For zac, it may be a little more complicated than "making available" ... Do you know journalists? Have you contacted any? Have you been hype around you?
Regarding what is written on the Pantone here:
- 1 I don't spend my days reading this forum
- 2 I suspect that we can find, here or on others forums, lots of testimonials from Pantone handymen ... that's not what I was talking about ...

On Oliomobile, a subscription has been launched to measure the emissions of a 100% HVP diesel in order to have irrefutable measurements ...
Why not do the same with a Pantonized car?
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