Dédéleco or rather Drake Landing Solar rewarded!

[Obamot]

Yes, but it should be added that the more you store deep, the less you worry ... Because if you have worries at -30m, it will not be easier to solve than at -300m, in both cases , no one will dig until then ....

The EPFZ recommends -300m!

Want to store on the surface, as Dedelco says, which is only a possible option for passive houses, and use what is already on the wire, for the rehabilitation of old buildings, saying that "SA" solution concerns 95% of French people!

... don't mess around, either!

[Remundo]

Not trollesque at all.

It is not isolated.

We create a "heat bubble", which diffuses slowly and creates its own insulation. (the delta T with the neighboring soil being significantly lower than the delta T with the outside air, wind, radiation, convection)

It's far from perfect, but it's cheap, with free energy.

Yes, that's it, that's what I read ...

We counted on the low thermal diffusivity of the rocks as insulation, just as we count on their high diffusivity for the rapid thermal transfer with the fluid ... It is a little subtle!

These are the equations of thermal diffusion with source / volume heat sink that should be applied ...

What I would like to know is how many calories are not recovered ... Because still, between summer and winter, heat has plenty of time to diffuse ... He was talking about 80 ° C in summer, 50 ° C in winter, that would already cause a 33% loss.

Certainly solar energy is free, but not the collectors and their maintenance.

I personally think that well insulated surface storage can be an alternative. Or why not (isolated) rock wells ...

[Obamot]

it all depends on the depth ...

at -300m / -400m, it does not discharge that much, since it takes two years to reach an optimal annual cycle ...

What I would like to know is how many calories are not recovered ... Because still, between summer and winter, the heat has all the time to diffuse ... Confused He was talking about 80 ° C in summer, 50 ° C in winter, that would already cause a 33% loss.

How many times do you have to repeat that everything depends on the local configuration!

In addition, the heat is charged all year round, and not only in summer, so each diurnal cycle "maintenance or completes" the accumulated potential, it does not discharge like that from one season to another (t ' haven't read my post?)

But on a zero emission surface (or shallow depth <(-) 100m) without a heat pump, you can always scratch yourself to get there ... We've been talking about it for years ...

And for the moment, the only thing that works and that is not in the "project" state, is Jenni's constructions:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/chauffage- ... 11285.html

[Alain G]

Yes, that's it, that's what I read ...

We counted on the low thermal diffusivity of the rocks as insulation, just as we count on their high diffusivity for the rapid thermal transfer with the fluid ... It is a little subtle!

These are the equations of thermal diffusion with source / volume heat sink that should be applied ...

What I would like to know is how many calories are not recovered ... Because still, between summer and winter, heat has plenty of time to diffuse ... He was talking about 80 ° C in summer, 50 ° C in winter, that would already cause a 33% loss.

Certainly solar energy is free, but not the collectors and their maintenance.

I personally think that well insulated surface storage can be an alternative. Or why not (isolated) rock wells ...

Hi Remundo!

In summer the available heat is much higher than the need in winter that we can afford a certain amount of calorie loss without problem!

The project is viable but not everywhere depending on the soil!

Point bar!

[Remundo]

Thanks Did

I would have been happy to read some serious scientific writings on the subject ... if you have links ...

[dedeleco]

For Remundo and his simple question:

What I would like to know is how many calories are not recovered ... Because still, between summer and winter, the heat has plenty of time to diffuse.

I replied in other posts on the same subject with in summary:
"all the time to broadcast." is with a distance or length of penetration increasing like the square root of time and therefore more and more slow which is the very basis of this insulation !!
4 months or oscillating with annual period, corresponds to a penetration length over 3 to 6 m where all the initial heat is fully retained, but with a lower T on the surface of the storage volume, which it is in the interest of taking d 'a size greater than these 3 to 6m of spherical shape (not a single well). If in winter we recover the heat deposited in summer, there is no loss in joule, but this is not possible because for use we do not accept T <20 ° C approximately (but it would be possible for a greenhouse at 10 ° C) and therefore we lose everything that is below this T threshold. By diffusion over several years, the earth is heated over a distance greater than the square root of time, therefore over 10 years 3,16 times the distance over one year and once hot over this distance at T threshold, the system loses less and less, which www; dlsc.ca observes.
But moreover, I insist that, considering that all this summer heat is wasted today with our heating systems (a few% of efficiency with wood at best), it is absurd to speak of losses, when recovers a lot more with these rudimentary sensors and it suffices in summer to install unpretentious sensors (simple pipe under glass or very inexpensive plastic) to compensate for these losses by storing more in very inexpensive soil.
What appeals to me is the possibility of doing it for very little money and what counts are not the losses but the total price.
Focusing on losses for an expensive system, while a larger system with more losses can be much cheaper, seems absurd to me.

Finally systems of the type:

I personally think that a well insulated surface storage can be an alternative

does not exist over 4 months for not too expensive, price of the more insulating tank (which must also be based on the distribution with inevitable losses). Free land is so much cheaper in large volume in comparison.
It is possible to make it at home for cheap by developing the inexpensive piercing which already exists practically.

[Obamot]

It is possible to make it at home for cheap by developing the inexpensive piercing which already exists practically.

Possible, possibly, but that remains to be proven .... And if so: it will be under certain conditions so rare that the implementation will be full of unpleasant surprises. Let's wait to see, but before that, it would be nice not to be so assertive, so as not to mislead people ... Thank you ....

In the meantime, I find your ad ABUSIVE!

Even though there is finally a real functional solution Who walks:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/chauffage- ... 11285.html

by developing the inexpensive drilling that already exists practically.

Where ? Pictures? Hey, hey ... So it works «si» we have the inexpensive drilling method that does not exist, it works «si» we are in a relatively temperate region, it works «si» etc ... these are exclusive conditions of which you have the secret and that I have never seen together before! Because with «si» we can bottle Paris for a long time.

ALAIN G: It depends on what we're talking about! For zero emissions, it is well known that Drake Landing does not fall into this category! However, it is towards zero heating that we must orient ourselves, because otherwise there are still heat pumps! And that we still don't want ... Because here it comes down to heating with electricity ... NUCLEAR ... Re-point barre!

[Christophe]

In any case, if there is something that works, this is the subject! Almost 40 messages in one day for an already ultra treated subject!

Proof that the ... er ... I don't know if I dare ...lobbying... of dedéleco has had its effect!



ps: it does not advertise itself!

reps:

Thanks Did

I would have been happy to read some serious scientific writings on the subject ... if you have links ...

Uh there is a lot of pseudo jpense because did not participate in this subject ...

[dedeleco]

In any case, some will never do anything original and imaginative, they would never have imagined or made the realization www.dlsc.ca and given the prices of what they recommend in Switzerland, stored in a huge balloon not original at all, a well-enlarged cumulus, unusable on all the old houses in France, even nearing completion, they encourage the continuation of nuclear in France, which fights CO2, until the next Fukushima-Chernobyl in France, inevitable, sooner or later, since French nuclear supermen cannot be infallible in perpetuity !!

Finally if I manage to pierce at home, make it waterproof like www.dlsc.ca by tinkering inexpensively, they will still say that this is only applicable

under certain conditions so rare, that the implementation will be full of unpleasant surprises.

Finally Christophe will never make a fortune, while at home, if he tried, he has the almost unique possibility in the world, to demonstrate an old solar house heated in winter by the summer sun, with some holes drilled underground, and a little imagination, to develop and make a fortune by selling your creative know-how !!

This subject works because the price given to dlsc has made us aware that there is a future to be realized, with the storage of heat underground, even if there is a little more creativity to develop, to realize it cheap at home by tinkering !!!.
At worst, you have to find an inexpensive method of blocking cracks in the ground, among the armada of possible products !!!
Some are disappointed that the prize is not awarded to the Swiss; but to Canadians !!

Finally there is no lobby on this method in its beginning.

[Napo dwarf]

here again I think we are getting lost there is not a solution (the theory at all)
the dedeleco solution should be the basis and if this is not feasible consider other solutions such as that of the Swiss
but me what bothers me is that if the tank cracks we are not bad in poop ^^, but more important solution very difficult to apply to the heritage already built: s

but here is after constructing passive with an adjoining greenhouse facing south which swings in a roller tunnel to swing in the battery of the VMC DF classified passivhaus (because a very good performance) here you add a tornado wall, from triple glazing to is west and north of double south
a small wood stove is good you are quiet
for DHW down there ... solar panel if we size for 100% of the needs we oversize for the summer the eternal problem


solutions, there is a fullitude it is necessary to know how to make the compromise which is going well but I find that for the creation of a housing estate the solution of the Canadians has the merit of suppressing the consumption of fossil gas what in fact goes in the common sense after oversizing the boiler is abused, do some more drilling and cover with more sensor (since they have proven that it works) grazing the 99% of needs is playable especially since all winter the sky is not overcast in spring and autumn we still have beautiful sunny days which can allow heating for two days with BBC or passive house (depending on the size of the buffer tank it goes without saying ^^

the gas, wood, ...