Ecological planning on 10 years

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Dconomie
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by Dconomie » 12/12/08, 18:12

I edited my 1st message:

new link, directly on the PG site, this time with the complete "ecology" section (go down to "Jean-Luc Mélenchon, Meeting du 29/11", go to the end of part 1, minute 17)

http://www.lepartidegauche.fr/index.php ... &Itemid=94
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C moa
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by C moa » 12/12/08, 19:15

Economics wrote:"I think ecology can be more effective when applied with a right-wing doctrine, not in the sense: plundering of resources and maximum profit, obviously, but in the sense of the economic profitability of ecology. .. "

"Besides, econology is more on the right ... for the simple reason that it includes profitability ... while the left is more subsidy ..."

Without wanting to be disparaging, do you really believe in what you say ??? "right" would rhyme with profitability ??

At the end of 2012, the right will be in power for more than 15 years (I do not count the balladur years) with institutions (a parliament, a senate ...) committed to its cause for more than 10 years and what is the result on the debt ?? on the deficits ??
If the right were so exemplary as that, shouldn't we be in a better position today ?? And in 4 years ?? Where will we be ?? Nicolas, whom so many people worship on the right, had to change everything ?? It is true that he changed things, his salary first (+ 178%), his planes then (they are not yet bought but it should not be long) and above all, he takes care of his friends (I think that we also say advisers) with first new tax loopholes (tax shield and consors for 15 billion per year) then 400 million to subsidize PSA / Renault research then finally 26 billion for again the automobile and the building (it is happy bouygues). Not to mention the banks.

Like that, there are plenty, we can even remember that the day Raffarin refused the increase in the minimum wage, he announced that he was going to double the remuneration of his ministers.

Oddly, there, we no longer talk about debts, deficit reduction ...

On the other hand, we type on education, emigrants, we create medical franchises (it hurts the little ones but it doesn't solve the basic problem (s). Medication is less than 7% of the budget of the security), the RSA will be difficult to be funded, we hear more about the suburban plan ....

Well that's for the political but you want us to talk about the bosses who had a perfectly healthy society and who ruined it either by not making the right decisions, or by stubbornly in the wrong way ( J2M for example), or by taking reckless risks (Société Générale ...). At the end, in general, they leave with a golden parachute without looking at those who will really hurt, namely their former workers and colleagues !!!

You will tell me, for 5 years, there has been the Chirac-Jospin cohabitation. Its balance sheet ?? Positive safety accounts (first the refusal to increase doctors without compensation and above all because the different sums that must be paid into the safety really were), 2 million jobs created, a pool of several billion that made a big splash at the time. The abolition of special funds had also greatly embarrassed Chirac because a good part went directly to the RPR. The 35 hours ?? It was such a mistake that more than 10 years later they are still there and yet the right and Sarkozy have always campaigned for their disappearance.

: Evil: : Evil: Okay i know we're not on a forum political but don't rush either !!! : Evil: : Evil:
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by Christophe » 12/12/08, 19:20

c moa it's me that you quoted the ... and not Dconomie

as I said I caricatured a little but not that much: a system based on subsidies (the case currently for all that is green) is not sustainable ... So give a boost to launch the technology I okay but let it become a habit no thanks!

Without clean profitability, clean technology is worth nothing ... : Cheesy:
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by C moa » 13/12/08, 00:54

Christophe wrote:c moa it's me that you quoted the ... and not Dconomie
In this case, my apologies to Dconomie.

as I said I caricatured a little but not that much: a system based on subsidies (the case currently for all that is green) is not sustainable ... So give a boost to launch the technology I okay but let it become a habit no thanks!
Certainly and I agree with that but why reduce it to a left / right notion ??
Contrary to popular belief, subsidies are not the preserve of the left. Who supported and developed the CAP ?? With all the consequences that this has had on our agriculture and on the development of that of poor / emerging countries ?? It's Chirac.

For the past 6/7 years, there have never been so many tax loopholes and subsidies in various and varied fields (agriculture, automobile, construction, transport ...).

So that Mr. Mélenchon puts the themes of ecology and sustainable development within the policy that he proposes so much the better, what is lamentable in fact is that the other parties treat this subject without a global vision (including the green) because despite all the efforts that are made, we will be effective only by rethinking our lifestyles, travel, construction, production ... in a global way.

Without clean profitability, clean technology is worth nothing ... : Cheesy:
I totally agree and that is partly why I have trouble with PV and other wind turbines.

For me, except in very specific cases, the aid should not be used to support a sector but should mainly be directed towards the most modest. Indeed, if you have the means, you have a passive house built not far from your job and in operation it does not cost you much. If you do not have the means, you buy an old hut or you build a traditional house much less efficient far from your job and it costs you dearly in heating, in diesel ...

Wanting to isolate this has a cost and despite all the interest and even the need to isolate, certain modest couples, even with a tax credit, cannot afford it. You always have to advance the money !!!

If you help modest consumers, they will invest properly and your industry will naturally be supported and this will limit the temptations to increase margins !!!
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by I Citro » 13/12/08, 10:54

C moa wrote:For the past 6/7 years, there have never been so many tax loopholes and subsidies in various and varied fields (agriculture, automobile, construction, transport ...).

It is more serious than that! Our taxes enrich the most large, those who do not need it, instead of helping those who need it, who innovate, who invest in research. Subsidies are used to pollute and compete unfairly and harm those with the most virtuous practices. : Evil:
Examples: With the subsidies, the large grain producers buy pesticides from fertilizers that contaminate the environment cause disease and prevent organic producers from producing according to their specifications.
Did you know that the Prince of Monaco receives large subsidies from the CAP for the land he owns in France and England, while small farmers go bankrupt, Prince Charles collects huge sums personally as a landowner . : Evil:

C moa wrote:So that Mr. Mélenchon puts the themes of ecology and sustainable development within the policy that he proposes so much the better, what is lamentable in fact is that the other parties treat this subject without a global vision (including the green) because despite all the efforts that are made, we will be effective only by rethinking our lifestyles, travel, construction, production ... in a global way.
Ben of course. : Arrowu:
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by Dconomie » 13/12/08, 19:06

@Cmoa

No problem, I obviously didn't take it for myself!

I did not find anything on the geothermal power plant of Alsace in the forums... Does anyone have a link?
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by Christophe » 15/12/08, 13:43

I just discovered Mr Mélenchon on this show: https://www.econologie.com/forums/chez-fog-e ... t6716.html

Sorry but I can't stand it: he's clearly unfriendly to me ...

For the geothermal power plant you did not look very well ( https://www.econologie.com/forums/search.php ) otherwise you would have quickly found this: https://www.econologie.com/forums/geothermie ... t1871.html
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Christine
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by Christine » 15/12/08, 14:48

I just took a look at Mr. Melenchon's blog and I come back with a migraine, a little the feeling of having spent the afternoon the head in a speaker of the CGT one day of demo.

It is very unpleasant; a preview of the character or just a bad choice of graphic charter?

http://www.jean-luc-melenchon.fr/
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by Christophe » 15/12/08, 14:54

Mélenchon's color is clear, it's dark red!

At FOG he calls Allegre a "primary anti-Soviet" (ready-made phrase generally used for lack of argument and which has its American equivalent elsewhere) because the latter dared to tell an anecdote from the Soviet era which really did not have an anti-Soviet ...

Sorry I do not think that communism is the best system to talk about ecology ... It is surely the worst ... I still prefer a green dictatorship ... than a red dictatorship ... at least not only losers ...
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by Dconomie » 15/12/08, 18:05

Good evening Christine, good evening Christophe!

Hmm ... You took snapshots just when it was not necessary to judge the beast ... Well obviously, there is no risk of displaying in blue the Mélenchon!

Just an excerpt from his blog to frame the character:
"Everything that the Communists say and discuss concerns us, as long as we are on the left. Quite simply because what they are dealing with is life, the terrifying crisis that is advancing, politics to change unfair order of things. Seen? It has nothing to do with their election scores, the Soviet Union's record and so on. It's just thought. "

He is not a communist but a socialist. The unique thought likes to label him "archaic Stalinist coconut" but that is just denigration and cruelty in rule that are part of the political game. Finally there is not the important ...

I haven't watched the show yet ( https://www.econologie.com/forums/chez-fog-e ... t6716.html ), but if I was interested in the Soultz power station, it is because the guy thinks he can gradually abandon nuclear power in favor of geothermal energy.

My naive question: is it possible? What are the technological barriers (if any)?
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