Video of a "perpetual" spring motor

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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by izentrop » 15/03/17, 22:19

I do not doubt it, Ahmed. I made this point because I have already seen this example of planetary rotation as proof of perpetual motion.
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by patou » 17/03/17, 07:57

Hello everyone
I think it's great invention and I thank the inventor
for me there is no hidden engine.
the basic principle is the arm of leverage (it was necessary to think about it !!!)
to improve the system it takes a connecting rod on each side set at 180 degrees with of course
bearings for contact with the blade.
therefore the force comes from the displacement of the fulcrum of the cam.
s'il vous plait
instead of criticizing it must be done with force calculation software
to realize that we have more strength on one side of the cam.
so to your calculations
Thank you
amicalement
patou
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by Janic » 17/03/17, 09:02

Hello hello
Do not get carried away! Assuming the system in equilibrium (as on the last 3 minutes of the video) this does not mean that it can provide an interesting driving force, the only aspect that concerns a possible energy production, currently. 8)
Ahmed hello
the notion of perpetuality actually exceeds our ability to conceive of what this represents and the use of this term is obviously inadequate, but above all it means that the movement, in this case, exists by itself without any additional energy supply to which we We are used to it (let's take a look at the blowing video which is ridiculous to which some fools can be caught, since it has been prefabricated to discredit such experiences)
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by Gaston » 17/03/17, 09:56

patou wrote:s'il vous plait
instead of criticizing it must be done with force calculation software
to realize that we have more strength on one side of the cam.
so to your calculations
Calculation software is just an application of the theory of mechanics.
But this same theory indicates that such a perpetual engine is impossible to build.
If a software indicates otherwise, it is because it has a bug or is misused : Mrgreen:

Janic wrote:Do not get carried away! Assuming the system in equilibrium (as on the last 3 minutes of the video) this does not mean that it can provide an interesting driving force, the only aspect that concerns a possible energy production, currently. 8)
You are right because in addition to the term "perpetual", there is also (and above all) the term "engine".
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by Gaston » 17/03/17, 10:03

Gaston wrote:
patou wrote:s'il vous plait
instead of criticizing it must be done with force calculation software
to realize that we have more strength on one side of the cam.
so to your calculations
Calculation software is just an application of the theory of mechanics.
But this same theory indicates that such a perpetual engine is impossible to build.
If a software indicates otherwise, it is because it has a bug or is misused : Mrgreen:

If we want to prove the possibility of this engine, we must first a new theory that will be used to build new computational software that will demonstrate that this engine is viable.
But this theory will also have to be compatible with past experiences : Twisted:

Janic wrote:Do not get carried away! Assuming the system in equilibrium (as on the last 3 minutes of the video) this does not mean that it can provide an interesting driving force, the only aspect that concerns a possible energy production, currently. 8)
You are right because in addition to the term "perpetual", there is also (and above all) the term "engine".
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by Ahmed » 17/03/17, 12:45

Gaston rightly emphasizes that there is a big difference between a (quasi) perpetual movement and a perpetual motor since the first one can not draw the second (it is obviously a school hypothesis, because the practical realization seems difficult!) : a (quasi) perpetual movement can not provide energy without slowing down, at around the clock from what is taken, just like an inertial wheel ...
I believe that Patou n / A Patout including! : Wink: Even by improving the system by decreasing the friction on the spring, there would be no energy produced, by definition. Certainly, as the remark Patou, the lever arm changes between the contact with the spring and the thrust it exerts and this is what suggests the illusion that there might be additional energy that would sustain the movement, which would is obviously not the case since a spring can only restitute (approximately) the same amount of energy that has been previously provided ...
This last point, which fascinates Patou, between input and output is easy to understand without going into complex calculations (which I would be quite unable!): the lever arm increases cam output, but the race decreases, which verifies the equality (if one here neglects friction) with the energy input. It's the same mistake as believing that with a lever you can increase the energy provided: no, we just transform it ...
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by izentrop » 17/03/17, 13:34

Always this mistake to believe that a received energy will be made without losses.
They can be neglected artificially in a software simulation but not in reality.

Patou, all you have to do is make the model to make yourself clear. You have to practice to understand the physical forces : Wink:
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by Ahmed » 17/03/17, 14:20

Anyway, even assuming (which is obviously wrong) that this "gadget" is constantly running, as it could not produce any energy, it would be useless ...
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by Janic » 17/03/17, 15:03

Patou, all you have to do is make the model to make yourself clear. You have to practice to understand the physical forces.


Oh there ! It's not enough ... to believe that it will work. It would be necessary to know beforehand all the parameters of the model: weight of the flywheel, force of the spring, the counterweight to hope to have a true copy of the presented model.

Anyway, even assuming (which is obviously wrong) that this "gadget" is constantly running, as it could not produce any energy, it would be useless ...

Useless: no! If the goal is only to show a conservation of energy put in function. As for claiming to be the energy of the future (I do not know what the designer of the object said) it would go beyond the reasonable and elsewhere, as I wrote earlier, there is no PTO at the end of the tree that will demonstrate it.
However, the steering wheel rotates, without visible slowdown, during the last 3 minutes, which for this type of model, is already a performance because the friction of the crankpin on the leaf spring should have given an opposite effect.
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Re: Video of a "perpetual" spring motor




by izentrop » 17/03/17, 15:05

Ahmed wrote:Anyway, even assuming (which is obviously wrong) that this "gadget" is constantly running, as it could not produce any energy, it would be useless ...
For that, it would be necessary to provide it with more energy than that expended to ensure the movement. This is "obviously" not the case.
This is the case of the drinking bird using a thermodynamic engine http://phymain.unisciel.fr/loiseau-buveur/

What is not said in the video: The energy comes from the evaporation that takes heat, cooled the head of the bird, warms and humidifies the ambient air. It needs a dry and warm air for it to work. A glass bell on it and it stops quickly.

Very simple the model, it just lacks the trick of concealed energy : Mrgreen:
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