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crispus
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by crispus » 04/01/10, 19:44

I made a small diagram to summarize:
Image

A: Unpowered coil, the field lines of the magnet pass through the torus because the reluctance is less than in the air.

B: Coil energized, the field in the torus is channeled by the coil at 90 ° with respect to that of the external magnet. The magnet's field lines turn away from the torus and go instead into the air.

If the coil is weakly energized, the magnetic domains available in the toroid are distributed proportionally in the 2 directions.

Hence the influence of the volume of the torus on the engine torque.
Last edited by crispus the 04 / 01 / 10, 20: 51, 1 edited once.
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bernardd
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by bernardd » 04/01/10, 20:10

Crispus wrote:The maximum torque must logically depend on:
- induction in the permanent magnet / toroidal air gap,
- the inverse of the square of the magnet-toroid distance,
- facing surfaces,
- and the volume of the torus, which determines the "storable" magnetic energy in the material ...

Logically, the current "erasure" canceling the force of attraction is itself also dependent on the volume of the torus. So there is a maximum torque / current relationship that leaves little chance of reaching overunit ...


I see what you mean, it's consistent. I also understand your next post.

I admit that I understand things in this area, but I have never practiced. That's why I have 2 questions about close configurations:

To deflect the magnetic field lines, one could put and remove a mu-metal sheet, for example a plastic / mu-metal cylinder which turns around the torus, or the permanent magnet which could then replace the torus (Precision: the mu-metal would pass between the static torus and the rotor magnet). To make this cylinder turn, what would be the order of magnitude of the energy that would depend on the magnetic interaction?

By going in the same idea, if one put in the place of the torus another permanent magnet, but that one makes turn of 1 half turn at the arrival of the magnet of the rotor, what would be the order of magnitude of the energy expended in the rotation that would depend on the magnetic field between the 2?

I'm not sure to be clear ...
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by Padawan » 13/01/10, 23:27

Hello all and best wishes!
Let's not get carried away! I am currently doing a "battery : Mrgreen: of tests on this famous COP> 1 !?
it's been two weeks since I made 2 engines but! because there is always a but! Back EMF well! the FCEM is always present a little certain but always there I send you a photo of my basic version! but I used a toroidal transformer as a choke, finally I mean this "Depolarization electro_aimant (220V-140V-0.4A).
no-load consumption 1.9W works from 8V to 23V and at 20V we obtain a speed of 2300Trs / min, I managed to increase the speed by positioning a large neodymium magnet in a precise place or in my opinion I locally change the ferromagnetic spins and therefore the permeability of the torus (core) and influences the inductance it is very surprising, but let's not get carried away! because I made tests in load with a coil (solenoid) with core used to me to take by induction U and I and well (I filmed it with students and in the presence of researcher) I slowed down the rotor by approaching my "generator" electromagnet and lit some LEDs and I did not have an increase in the supply current of my motor!
to a certain distance from the rotor magnets .... It is interesting this engine and it is the subject of a project for students
at the fac.I work on the effect on several rings in metal, ferrite, and even ferrite magnets in rings to try to see the effects to channel their field inside the coil but still a lot of birch, but good it's funny ! for now no surunity but SURPRISING see you soon and surely a video on you tube !!! Image
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elephant
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by elephant » 14/01/10, 08:15

OK, we are with you, but there are 2 stuff that I know

1) the position of your toroidal with respect to the axis: it does not look like JLN's last tests at all

2) fcem: OK, blah, if there is no load?
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Obelix
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by Obelix » 14/01/10, 10:03

Hello,

I do not think the ORBO effect is the one that Padawan describes.
For my part this effect is due to the variation of the impedance of the self Delta L between the point near magnets and distant magnets.
This implies having toroids with a hyper high Al of the MetGlass type (Al = 1000000 => 10 ^ 6) with a small number of turns of large wire diameters in order to minimize losses by Joule effect ....
But all this is only my humble conviction!

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by Padawan » 14/01/10, 10:13

JLN is not a reference elsewhere Steorn shows that JLN did not cancel the FCEM (even empty expensive Elephant)
Test and you'll find that this type of engine has
surprise. I optimized it to make it more efficient in terms of consumption and speed. JLN makes beautiful presentations but he does not dare new experiences on what he tests he prefers to see and reproduce, but hey! let's be honest he does it well!
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small video




by Padawan » 14/01/10, 10:36

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbursb_p1010051_tech

see you soon
it's actually the Steorn effect that makes Obelix work! Thanks!
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Re: Padawan-VS-Steorn




by bernardd » 14/01/10, 11:30

Congratulations for these tests, and thank you for making them public.

Padawan wrote: I did tests under load with a coil (solenoid) with a core used to take U and I by induction and well (I filmed it with students and in the presence of a researcher) I braked the rotor by l approach my "generator" electromagnet and lit some LEDs and I did not have an increase in the supply current of my motor!


Concretely, what torque / power of the rotor compared to the electric power of the coil necessary to cancel the attraction of the ferrite core?

And how do these 2 powers increase if you increase the size / the field of the permanent magnets of the rotor?

It's this simple curve that will tell us where it is ...
Last edited by bernardd the 14 / 01 / 10, 12: 36, 1 edited once.
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by bernardd » 14/01/10, 11:33

elephant wrote:1) the position of your toroidal with respect to the axis: it does not look like JLN's last tests at all


Sorry, I did not see any difference, can you tell me what difference do you see?
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elephant
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by elephant » 14/01/10, 12:57

the axis of the JLN tori are aimed at the axis of the engine: it's not what we see in Padawan's photo, I think.
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