Cumulus heated with solar?

Forum solar photovoltaic PV and solar electricity generation from direct radiation solar energy.
leozoe
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Cumulus heated with solar?




by leozoe » 29/12/08, 18:17

That you seem to be bizard but I can not find a concrete answer to my search here I am only beginning to understand how the solar function but still I have a question I have 4 photovoltaic panels of 20wc 12v about 80w / h for a surface of about 8m2 my question is simple I would like to produce sufficient energy to power a resistance of 2600w in order to heat the water of a cumulus how much would I need to battery and how this calculation this number of battery needed
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by Christophe » 29/12/08, 18:28

You could make an effort with the spelling stp?

Your numbers are inconsistent. 8m² for 4 * 20Wc is anything.

Warming up with electricity is bullshit as much ecologically as economically ... and even more so when it's photovoltaic electricity ...
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 29/12/08, 22:17

8) Come on, let's finish the year in the zenitude. :D

Photovoltaic production is estimated at about 120W per m² (low range), so 8m² should produce 960W, round to 1000W ...

It is estimated the photovoltaic m² 1000 € posed, 8000 €

For this price (complete installation asked by proffessionnel, before subsidies and tax deductions) in solar thermal, you have 4m² (mini) panels that will produce more than 1000W per m² : Shock: be more than 4000W (about 5kw)
This price normally includes a super insulated 300 liter balloon which will allow several days of autonomy in case of absence of sun.

So to summarize;
In solar thermal:
more than 1000W per m² and about 500 € / m² including ball
The yield is greater than 80%. 8)


In photovoltaics:
less than 150W per m² and about 1000 € / m², balloon not included (about 300 € for a mid-range). The yield is less than 15%


I hope these figures illuminate your lantern. :?

The sun naturally gives us heat. Capturing it to transfer it to a hot water tank will always be more efficient than converting solar energy into electricity and then electricity into heat ...

Photovoltaics and the least efficient solution to use solar energy because it only converts light into energy ...
Thermal sensors coupled to a stirling motor operating an electric generator already allow double yields of those of the best photovoltaic panels ...
:?
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leozoe
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correction




by leozoe » 30/12/08, 08:30

First thanks to Christophe and as much for me for spelling happy new year anyway back in France I could use an azerty keyboard
correction for my data I have 4 0.19 panel m2 so less than 120w .the problem is that we have a house in Italy and of course big problem with electricity so I think use these 4 panels with a solar controller, converter, battery solar but I do not know how much battery I should have for a daily use knowing that if I'm not mistaken for a resistance of 2300w I would need about 10A with two 5Ah battery I should get out of it you think or so I leave falls and I invest in thermal sensors? Happy new year citro and thank you and a thousand excuses but a British who writes French not easy
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Re: fix




by dirk pitt » 30/12/08, 08:48

leozoe wrote:.the problem is that we have a house in Italy and of course a big problem with electricity


I do not see what problems there are in Italy with electricity ??
there are cuts ??

with 4x20Wc you will not do much hot water while it can still feed some LED lamps.
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I Citro
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Re: fix




by I Citro » 30/12/08, 09:26

leozoe wrote:correction for my data I have 4 0.19 panel m2 so less than 120w .the problem is that we have a house in Italy and of course big problem with electricity so I think use these 4 panels with a solar controller, converter, battery solar but I do not know how much battery I should have for a daily use knowing that if I'm not mistaken for a resistance of 2300w I would need about 10A with two 5Ah battery I should get out of it you think or so I leave falls and I invest in thermal sensors? Happy new year citro and thank you and a thousand excuses but a British who writes French not easy

:? Houla, you mix everything, the Amps, the Watts, and you forget the Volts ... (The Watts = Volts x Amps)
Your panels surely work in 12V, maybe in 24V, it depends on the mounting (series or parallel), the model of the solar controller and the converter.
If you have 2 12V batteries 5Ah in parallel, you get 12 Volts 10Ah is 120W ... This will be just enough to prevent your water from freezing but will not heat ... Also your batteries will be empty in less than 30 minutes ...
5Ah batteries are cheap alarm system, toy or electric bike batteries. :?

Your material is just for lighting diode lamps and a radio for an evening. :?
What is your house, a cottage in an isolated site? :?:
If this is the case, you may be heated with wood, a heat recovery in the fireplace or on the stove could be a simpler choice, economical and effective. :?

Heating water with photovoltaic panels is like pulling a caravan with bicycles ... it takes a lot, it's complicated, and it does not go quickly ... Change your mind. :? :|

A friend of mine has built a wooden chalet (inhabited year round), his wind turbine (300W) and his 60W panel recharge several batteries of 12V for a total capacity of about 200Ah which gives him a few days of autonomy for its lighting and its small audio-visual in 12V.
Its heating is wood, its hot water with a gas bottle (for now).
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leozoe
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please




by leozoe » 30/12/08, 19:18

sorry for the p = u * i citro I think I'll keep the panels for a few led in the garden and I'm going to interest me near a solar water heater we have 4 thousand m2 field I think I'll find them a place so for powers of 10w I could use at least 10 thank you and sorry not to master the subject still good holiday year-end at all
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by I Citro » 30/12/08, 19:50

: Arrowu: You dont have to be sorry leozoe. : Wink:

Not knowing is not a fault, I too learn every day, and the more I learn, the more I see my ignorance. :?

If you have a lot of space, think that the phenomenon of thermosiphon is an interesting component of a solar thermal system ... If it can avoid you to mount a circulator ... 8)
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by Olivier22 » 30/12/08, 23:43

Hello ! Ah, there is a question raised that has been bothering me for a while!
Christophe wrote:Warming up with electricity is bullshit as much ecologically as economically

I often read this speech; but could you tell me why?
I mean, economically I understand that it can be cheaper to burn wood for heating than to produce the same power by joule effect.
But ecologically? Yes, heating requires a lot of energy but if this energy is clean ... why not? I would prefer to heat myself with a wind turbine of 10 kW than with a gas or oil boiler of the same power.

If not, what do you suggest to a guy who wants to reject 0g from CO2 (in use) with his heating, hot water, lighting, etc?

Whereas, wood (for example) is renewable OK, but there is added value that pollutes (transport, cutting), and we do not necessarily control the mode of exploitation of its forest of origin (1 tree planted for 1 tree cut is good, but less than 1 tree planted for 0 cut)

So in short, why so much hate for electricity for heating and hot water? Of course it's big numbers on the bill but it's the very principle of heating that wants that! That food ...
Quitting to consume a lot of energy, why could not this energy be electric?
Thank you for enlightening my lantern : Mrgreen: )
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by Christophe » 31/12/08, 01:30

Olivier22 wrote:So in short, why so much hate for electricity for heating and hot water? Of course it's big numbers on the bill but it's the very principle of heating that wants that! That food ...

Quitting to consume a lot of energy, why could not this energy be electric?
Thank you for enlightening my lantern : Mrgreen: )


It is an overall efficiency calculation that shows the abatement of electric heating and air-to-air heat pumps included ... because they rarely have COPA (annual COP) that exceeds 2.58.

Pkoi 2.58? Because in France you need 2.58 kWh Primary Energy to make 1 electric kWh useful for heating (this coefficient is rather low and includes hydroelectric dams: it is an average) ... In comparison for the oil it is 1.10 1.15 kWh EP ... but the DPE do not take this last correction.

The electric for extra I'm not against (I have a calculation on the fire) but 100% it is an aberration (but that suits the seller of kWh obviously) ... now obviously it can appear economic, therefore econological, to the construction ...

Electricity is a more noble energy than heat ...
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