Vortex wind turbine towers: synthesis

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sen-no-sen
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by sen-no-sen » 14/08/10, 12:12

Christophe wrote:

In short, it is important not to focus on a single renewable technology, because the energy future will necessarily be a mix of renewable energy ... in order to compensate for their respective shortcomings ... in comparison with fossil fuels.


I do not focus on a single technology, but I think that the vortex on towers of the future (no offense to certain).
The ideal being the "local solution" (biomass, photo or concentrated solar), it is however necessary to think of alternative solutions to fossil fuels and nuclear energy, cities not being designed to be energetically autonomous (and that will last again :x ).


oiseautempete wrote:


Precisely the orders of magnitude have no impact on the speed of flow of the gas stream ... on the contrary, on a small scale it should be even faster in reality ...
In more detail to which I did not immediately think, if the speeds were of the order of those announced, the system would make a titanic noise ... and what about the planes which pass above these chimneys because the exit speed would be necessarily still high ...


Flying over nuclear power plants is forbidden to aviation, it will be the same in this case.

Do not confuse a horizontal Venturi in a carburetor with a vertical Venturi structure 300m high.
The orders of magnitude play an enormous role, with regard to the differences in pressures and temperatures between the base and the top of the tower.
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by oiseautempete » 14/08/10, 14:08

bernardd wrote:
oiseautempete wrote:would rather be a thing like the Norwegian hydro-electric power stations which are INVISIBLE because dug in the mountain ...


Invisibility is not a guarantee of safety ...

Go visit them and you will understand: it's worth it, it's very beautiful and wild Norway ... thanks in particular to the low population density ...
The Norwegians say of themselves that they are very peaceful ... as long as their neighbors are out of their sight ... : Lol:
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by oiseautempete » 14/08/10, 14:21

sen-no-sen wrote:
Flying over nuclear power plants is forbidden to aviation, it will be the same in this case.



With opinions like that, given the very large number of units it would take, light aviation is doomed because there are more and more areas closed to light aircraft (the "heavy" flying high in controlled space. are not affected by these bans), whether nuclear power plants, refineries, certain factories (Peugeot Mulhouse for example) military zones or especially airport approach zones which are gigantic in France (TMA) ... except the majority of professional military or civilian pilots come from sports flight ...
When the nuisance and performance of these towers, we will see that when it is done in full size and not only on paper, but I absolutely do not believe in the figures announced because completely illogical ...
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by sen-no-sen » 14/08/10, 14:49

Do not worry oiseautempete, apparently this type of device will not see the light of day (soon at least) in France ...: Cry: ... EPR first!

Regarding the number of units, the designer envisions a power of 500 MW and 1000 MW, for a tower of 300m, using other renewable sources, it would not take as many towers as that!
In my very humble opinion, this last figure (1000MW) seems to me overvalued (I would rather floor for a power recoverable and not theoretical from 300 to 600 MW maximum, the calculations and the reality being two somewhat different things.

but I absolutely do not believe in the figures announced because they are totally illogical ...

What seems totally illogical to you?
Are you referring to all of its technologies (vortex towers in general) or to devices in particular?
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by bernardd » 14/08/10, 14:59

Then there is another solution: towers made of self-supporting materials made of materials lighter than air, ie an airship elongated upwards and fixedly installed.

He would hold an airship covered with photovoltaic panels above the clouds, for full-time use of the sun and with adjustable inclination to follow the sun.

He would bring down the electric cables.

It would serve as an elevator for the departure of miniplanes.

And a tube would channel the rising hot air from the city below.

The only question, what are the thunderbolts?

Of the dream ? In any case, a plastic and Kevlar cable can easily be held vertical with helium or hydrigene balloons. I did the math at one time.
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by sen-no-sen » 14/08/10, 15:09

it was already thought bernardd!

The "Twistower":

http://www.greenidealive.org/110599/476/twistower.html

And also, the solar tower of Patrick Nicholas:


http://www.umd-france.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=60&Itemid=35
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by bernardd » 14/08/10, 15:22

I did not know these references, but I had tests of a freestanding tube in the USA, and they were aimed squarely at the satellite elevator :-)

But in any case, no reference to a major risk: lightning ...

Add: Heaven! I just missed the international conference on the subject!

http://spaceelevatorconference.org/default.aspx

with:
Construction and Operation Session

10:15 am-10:45am Design and Feasibility of a 20 km Free-Standing Pneumatically-Supported Space Tower - Raj Seth

et
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/06/propos ... tower.html

Otherwise in reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

If we can do it for 20km, I think doing it for 1km with "vulgar" Kevlar is possible now.
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by sen-no-sen » 14/08/10, 17:00

Very interesting indeed!
But as usual, as long as the cost of such installations is not profitable with respect to fossil fuels ...
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by bernardd » 15/08/10, 14:03

For tall structures, there are also electrical problems, of which lightning is only one manifestation, and whose causes are in fact little known.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/ ... 812sun.htm
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/ ... 812sun.htm

It might be possible to exploit the differences in electrical potential more gradually than during lightning strikes.

But what will be the consequences for the planet's balances?
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by sen-no-sen » 15/08/10, 18:02

Wanting to recover the energy of the ionosphere, has already been thought (I believe that Tesla had made experiments in this sense, and then there is HAARP :?: ).
This seems relatively hazardous given the perverse effects that could result from it.
Otherwise use airships to recover part of the energy from jet streams, but again there are many engineering problems to be solved (ultra light and resistant anchor cables etc ...)
A vortex tower does not have all of its drawbacks and has the advantage of being achievable in a very short time.
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