Pantone engine: where to start?

Water injection in thermal engines and the famous "pantone engine". General informations. Press clippings and videos. Understanding and scientific explanations on the injection of water into engines: ideas for assemblies, studies, physico-chemical analyzes.
Ollivier
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Pantone engine: where to start?




by Ollivier » 03/07/07, 22:21

Hi everybody!

I land on this forum. First post after a few readings here while waiting for activation. The trip!

I live in a studio at 1er floor. 30m² that does not please a woman for the moment seen bordello.

Alors
* I have a muffler of R19
* a welding station
* agglomerate to protect the linoleum
* a grinder
* some discs
A priori, I just miss the copper.

First, what should I do?
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crispus
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by crispus » 03/07/07, 23:28

Hi and welcome,

Ollivier wrote:First, what should I do?


Carefully warn your neighbors that you will make some noise! : Cheesy:

More seriously, you should specify your project: if your "exhaust" is a rear silencer, you will not have enough heat for your reactor. Most of us use the manifold outlet fitting, or even the manifold itself. There is also the trick of the catalytic converter emptied and "converted" into a bubbler-reactor (very discreet!).

In any case if you intend to panton, you have struck at the right address. Good research (there are pages to consult!) And good luck.
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Ollivier
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by Ollivier » 04/07/07, 00:41

My neighbors?

Above, they creak the bed every night.
Next to them they stuff themselves the [censored] to be grapes every night.
Above, she does not hear much.

For the serious side, to summarize the ideal configuration of the guy who has everything to get there:

After knocking the nose of my R19D in the [censored] of a little Fiat, I decided to buy an 2ème: the same.
The intact diesel of the accident, I deposited and stored in the bike cage. And all its useful accessories are on metal shelves in my studio (radiator, speakers, gearbox, gimbals, etc ...) waiting to replace those on Titine.
The bodywork: basta.

Among all my pti brothel, I have the entire muffler of each other with. Since I hear a lot about him.

But ... I check because I have the admission block too. And I would drift more towards a set situated towards her.
Indeed, the heat, the proximity of the exhaust manifold, makes me come more in these surroundings rather than at the bottom.

I really want to do an all-in-one between the collector and the admission.
>> The advantage: once it's done right and reliable, it's solid and compact.
>> The downside: once it's badly done and rickety, it's difficult to access (Mainly a reinforcement bar - it's Rinault must not be forgotten ... - which reduces access)

So I'm waiting for the word of the experiment to tell me if I'm taking a wrong path or not?

Knowing that once the system mounted, if I have a problem, if I disassemble a single block instead of 2, it may be better.

Test point of view, it's on the coffee table (I have no choice). I can not see myself with a whole barda that hangs or anything. My 1er felt in case I do not see any noticeable opposition to this method, it is to recover a 3th cylinder head and screw my two pieces to know how I will go about it.

Otherwise, I did not understand the schema of the bubbler. As far as I can see, there are several principles of vaporization.
> Ultrasound
> Heat
> Pressure / dispersion (like aerosol cans)

The one who gives me more confidence a priori is the bubbler ultra-sound. But it seems too good to be true. I do not know if it is modulating.

I know very little about mechanics. Is a cold mix more or less effective than a hot mix for a Diesel?


Also, I did not really understand what some people do by using the heat of the pot to evaporate the water. Is there a protection between the water and the muffler? Otherwise it seems that it is nickel at first, since there is cracking (do not worry, this is one of the only real physics words I know) water with the incandescent iron pot up when it is smashed, rusted and pierced. In this case, before the pot is smashed, the energy of the material Iron pot has been used to produce pure hydrogen so it is obvious that XNUMxères hours, it has a revolutionary profitability!

Note: at 120 euros per tonne of iron, it is still profitable to use iron as indirect fuel. "My car runs like iron filings ..."

Finally, there is the magnetic aspect. I have not searched the forum to know what it is on this point because I do not want to neglect it.
As I understand it, H2O water molecules separate. But what is happening physically?
1 >> H2O => H (+) + H (+) + O (2-)?
2 >> H2O + H2O => H2 + H2 + O2
3 >> H2O => H (+) + OH (-)

Here are all my 1 doubts!
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by crispus » 04/07/07, 10:22

Something bad is good: having 2 identical motors, one accessible and the other "in situation", it is all the same the ideal.

For my AX, the intake and exhaust ports being on the same side, I also dream of a compact heat exchanger glued to the cylinder head for maximum calories. Especially since the place is limited under the hood. But for sure, you have to think twice before launching! For me it's been over a year that I think ...

To answer some of your questions:

It is not the oxidation of the bubbler that produces hydrogen, not enough heat, it is usually warmed by the coolant (~ 80 ° C).
Moreover, nothing proves the appearance of hydrogen in operation, boiling water ionizes "naturally" into H3O + and OH-:
See the subject of bob_isat

There is no ultrasound bubbler, it is rather a fogger. Others use carburetors to spray the water.

The bubbler has the advantage of generating extra fine hot drops and keeping the impurities at the bottom: less risk for the engine. On the other hand it is necessary to roll several km before the steam is produced.

Like many experimenters I gave up the bubbler track in favor of the GVI (instant steam generator). See here : The inevitable site of Camel1. See also, its compact heat exchanger on 205 ...

See the corresponding topic

Finally free pub : Mrgreen: for my (controversial) hypothesis about the electromagnetic nature of the reactor.

Some practical tips for this forum :

- If you want to know more about the speakers of the forum, do not hesitate to consult their profile (icon at the bottom of each post), you will be able to find their messages and thus interesting subjects whose title would not have attracted you at first sight ...

- You will soon need to post pictures. See here:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/comment-me ... t1176.html

Good luck.

Marc.
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Ollivier
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by Ollivier » 04/07/07, 12:08

Well I did not expect to have as clear about the chemical reaction H3O (+) + OH (-).

Basically, we still have a reaction that tends to convert some of the thermal energy into chemical energy.

After reading this night of various official articles on this site, I had been chilled by the idea that there was no real production of hydrogen. But with this formula, it gives me a little hair.

Thank you for your links too. I think I'm going to buy a torch and do a simple test bench at home to study the gas (or plasma?) Obtained. I do not have much money but the goal would be to add some interesting curves through the purchase of temperature sensors that I connect to my PC via a home interface.

My first passion is computer science. it would allow to know what proportions are obtained in real time to the hundredth of a second.
I will not fail to diffuse these curves. I say that without having searched the site and the links presented. I do not want to offend the work of others! So if there is already this type of data, do not blame me!

It will take me a few months because I have other priorities, but this system intrigues me especially when I technically practically all it takes to turn this system into reality. There is one problem: insurance ... : Mrgreen:
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by Flytox » 04/07/07, 21:54

Hello Ollivier

Ollivier wrote:Indeed, the heat, the proximity of the exhaust manifold, makes me come more in these surroundings rather than at the bottom.

I really want to do an all-in-one between the collector and the admission.
>> The advantage: once it's done right and reliable, it's solid and compact.
>> The downside: once it's badly done and rickety, it's difficult to access (Mainly a reinforcement bar - it's Rinault must not be forgotten ... - which reduces access)


The idea is good but the realization more difficult. What you can do 'easily' on your engine in your apartment is not the same as you can assemble on the cylinder head once the engine in the box .....: Mrgreen:

Already to remove the intake manifold must 'wiggle' by touching the box. The exhaust manifold can only be removed after removing the intake manifold. :frown:

When there is no room, visibility and access for the hands, it is not with a bigger element that you will get away with it more easily.

If your engine is 'not cleaned' so no valve EGR tries to find you (in breakage) an intake manifold (Mégane for example) that has the boss that goes well. This will greatly facilitate the connection of your organ that provides you with steam.

For the reinforcement bar, it takes 2 minutes to transfer or reset it.

A+
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by Other » 04/07/07, 22:50

Hello

The first thing is to carefully examine the place where you will put the reactor, it may take a few days of reflection.
the reactor in the cast iron pipe of the cylinder head is not a good idea neither for thermal reasons nor for reasons of realization (welding and expansion), the good place is in the exhaust duct just aa the exit of the collector exhaust you benefit from the heat of all the cylinders and you are close to the intake manifold
the stem must be dismountable if possible
the reactor inlet must be easily modifiable for either a bubbler or carburetor, or a GV ..
the reactor remains the same ..
To think of a beautiful montage is one thing to think of how to locate it and to realize it with the tools and means available is something else.
Between the ideal, the practical and the simplest to realize it is full of compromises ..
Also think that if it is a car that can not be imobilized that we need every day ...

Think about doing some sketching and post the good of sforumwe will give advice

Andre
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 05/07/07, 08:11

Hello
Personally I already have a compact assembly that gives the same operation as a car but works on a set.
You take the exhaust descent, that is to say the tube just out of the cast iron collector.
It's exactly the same on your R19 as on my Super5, will see the images in my post 5 super doped with water:
Image

At 5 cm behind the exhaust flange you make a hole of 20mm, behind the elbow at the bottom of the exhaust tube you make another identical hole. You insert the heating tube of 30cm in 1 / 2 with the threaded ends.
You will therefore have your exhaust tube which is "S" shaped with a straight tube inside and just behind the exhaust manifold, so very well located. You weld the tube so that it does not move and that it is well sealed. A mini oxypower torch from Casto or other is more than sufficient. No need for a professional torch.
The 16mm stainless steel rod (found in a professional hardware store) you will have already inserted inside the heating tube 1 / 2. It will hold with self-drilling screws that will pass through the heating tube to center it. It will cut the screw heads and make a weld point so that it does not move.
Then you put connections on the inlet and outlet of the reactor.
On the outlet you connect a copper tube 10cm long and then a rubber tube reinforced with auto coolant (sold by the meter at Autobacs).

You must then weld a steel shell (exhaust pipe) slightly larger than your exhaust pipe.
You will put this shell on the horizontal part of your tube.
I used a piece of pipe for the connection of the BMW exhaust. You find that at Norauto's or somebody else's room. It measures 10cm long.
The idea is to make a double paroie 10cm long in order to make a GV.
Before soldering the part on the exhaust, it will be necessary to weld a tube of 4mm at the bottom of the shell (water inlet) and a tube of 14mm at the top of the shell (steam outlet).
It will give you your steam supply for the reactor.
At the steam outlet you put a tee and connect to the entrance of the reactor. In entry of water you put a trap of central heating as indicated by Camel1 on its site. http://reaction.directe1.free.fr/
Then you fix everything on the vice of your dining room table : Cheesy: you put the trap 1 / 4 of the height of the GV and you heat the reactor with a thermal decapper that blows in the exhaust. At the reactor outlet you connect your site vacuum cleaner (with tank and float).
Here. You have a reactor in your apartment. : Cheesy:

video test at the workshop

Image

In this image the GV is vertical and there is no reactor.
Place the GV horizontally in the bottom of the tube and connect the steam outlet to the reactor inlet. Do not forget to intercalate a tee for the air supply.
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by Christophe » 05/07/07, 09:32

This post makes me think that it is more and more urgent to set up the pantone wiki which will lead to the drafting of summary documents. Just like the oily ones did it for vegetable oil!

As I told you with André we had already started writing a .pdf (well, especially André).

Thank you for sharing any suggestions here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/un-wiki-pa ... t3727.html
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by PITMIX » 05/07/07, 19:54

If you type "Pantone engine" on Wikipedia there are already things.
It is in this subject that you want to give more details?
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moteur_Pantone
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