WHAT TO CHOOSE? Calculator problem with the electric car

[Bardal]

... / ...
And if I understand the explanations of Bardal, EDF is going to do the same thing to us with electric cars ..... But maybe I misunderstand and that it's just a conspiracy theory .....

Michel

But, you have every right to disagree with nuclear… You are even in perfect agreement with the dominant thought of this forum, and hardly shows originality.

But no need to hide behind I do not know what specious reasoning to try to show that we lack electricity for electric vehicles, or that I do not know what ... You also have the right to be against vaccines, or theses of the IPCC ... What I simply notice is that you started from false data, from an inaccurate representation of the functioning of the French electricity network, and of the West European network; at least now you will know.


NB I am not in the habit of telling nonsense in support of my reasoning; with regard to the decline in nuclear power at night, several sites (including that of RTE) show over one day, one week, one month (as desired) the production of the various sources of electricity. I particularly recommend this one http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/ . So you can check for yourself. But finally, all this is very widely known ...

[Bardal]

Of course, but in a very different context from an abundant hydromotive energy ...

So superabundant that Canada has seen fit to develop a significant nuclear energy (6th producer in the world) and is continuing research on 4th generation power plants ...

[Ahmed]

This does not contradict the existence of a very large capacity in white coal, only a desire to diversify energy sources and also an unquenchable thirst for energy.

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

Hello everybody

An interesting spreadsheet has been reported by nico239, it shows the reasons why those who can count do not rush on the offer of VE.
It is here : https://www.automobile-propre.com/dossi ... lectrique/

Thank you for the quote, I also did a personal calculation which, from memory, resulted in a gain starting from 8 years of use.

After discussions with users I also discovered that the manufacturers voluntarily ignored the conditions of use
- headlights, full headlights
- heating, demisting and defrosting
- air conditioner
- radio
- phone recharge
- windscreen wipers

In short, autonomy is actually quite catastrophic compared to the manufacturer's display.

Not to mention that this type of vehicle is exclusively intended for owners of a detached house (or for residents of a building with a private garage with an electrical outlet equipped and validated by the condominium, which is not won ) with the possibility of returning the car inside the property overnight to recharge it, which considerably reduces the possibilities of distribution.

[yves35]

Good evening,

And at the time of this non-choice another was made, that of the absolute thermodynamic aberration (and unique in the world) consisting in using electricity, "noble" energy par excellence, for heating.

Michel

this is incorrect, the electric heating is prior to the construction of nuclear power plants following the first oil shock.

Electric heating was one of the solutions to the problem of heating old buildings, even very old. We had to either install a water heating network in the buildings, a boiler room in a space that did not necessarily exist and manage the load distribution in a condominium that did not necessarily exist either, or the electric alternative: pull suitable cables, install heaters (usually the awful brick accumulators + convectors, gift: the load distribution was simple. The installation costs were lower than the costs of central heating. But progress for the same poor who came from the wood or coal stove.

As it was a time that you knew well, you also remember that we did not feel obliged to heat the whole of a dwelling, that the rooms were partitioned and equipped with a door that could be closed, that we could sleep very well in an unheated room in winter with a hot water bottle and a quilt, and finally that the heads in the air were quickly cooled with the first bills (we see that the electric heating does air conditioning too ).

I just wanted to make this reminder for the young generations who get caught up in this militant but simplistic shortcut: electric heating = nuclear.

yves

[Ahmed]

If I remember correctly, the desire to combine civilian nuclear power with the military preexisted the crisis of 73 and the promotion of electric heating was a direct result.
You write:

It is a heating of the poor. But progress for the same poor who came from the wood or coal stove.

It is a way of seeing ... In the individual pavilions, electric heating was justified by the very low installation cost which reduced the final bill, but at the cost of a prohibitive usage cost: the consequence was a prodigious boom in inserts and wood stoves ...
In the rental sector, the differential between these two costs has been a great incentive for investors since the operating costs fell to the tenants.

[sicetaitsimple]

I do not know who to believe of the two, which one is more "intimate" with EDF?

Privacy has little to do with it, everything is available on the Internet.

Extract from the EDF 2017 reference document, published in April 2018, page 19:

The nuclear production expressed in annual energy corresponds to a production rate of the French nuclear fleet (which is defined as the energy produced in relation to the maximum theoretical energy, the latter notion corresponding to operation at installed power throughout the year) , also called load factor ("Kp"). This rate is obtained by multiplying two coefficients (Kp = Kd × Ku): the availability coefficient (“Kd”) (available energy (3) compared to the maximum theoretical energy, the latter notion corresponding to operation at the installed capacity all year round). The Kd depends on the duration of the outages and is therefore impacted by the standard durations and the work programs to be carried out; the utilization coefficient ("Ku") (energy produced in relation to available energy). The Ku reflects the environmental, regulatory and social constraints, the supply of system services and the optimization operated by EDF (fuel and modulation). The Kp coefficient, of 68,55% in 2017, is stable compared to that of 2016 (69,2%). This is the result of a Kd of 77,1%, down compared to 2016 (79,6%) and a Ku of 88,92%, up 1,9 points compared to 2016 (87%).



The kU is 89% (we are not going to nitpick ...), which means that if all the nuclear units available
(not by accidental shutdown or scheduled) had been operated at full load permanently, production over the year would have been 11% higher than that recorded at 379TWh, therefore around 40TWh more.

This is theoretical, because nuclear power is dominant in France, it must contribute to "system services", the real-time adjustment (in a few seconds or a few tens of seconds depending on the case) of the production / consumption balance. As a result, some units operate at less than 100% (often around 95%) to have reserve "on the rise". This is not the case, for example, in the United States or in Germany where nuclear power operates almost constantly at full load.


In short, there is still room to support the development of EV… ..

[RIAZ]

You also have the right to be against vaccines, or IPCC theses ...

I regret that you pass arguments to bloubiboulga so quickly ....

Yes, it has long been noticed that passing current through a resistor produces heat. It is certain that we used electric heaters in old homes (in the bathroom, for shaving ), from there to equip them with electric heating there is a (big) step linked to the non-adaptation of electrical installations.

It is not a mystery that the quasi generalization of electric heating in the nine is contemporaneous with the decision to invest massively in nuclear power. No need to do 10 posts on the subject recalling the very cozy EDF ads and the record figures showing that the French have the pompom of the toaster on all floors.
It was direct producer-consumer and of course, the low equipment costs attracted developers very little threatened by the fuel poverty that would hit many of the occupants of the low cost (and therefore poorly insulated) housing they produced .
This must of course be put in the context of an era when the availability of energy galore was the starting point for all reasoning.

What is staggering is that the handful of decision-makers already mentioned had a right hand that did not know what the left hand was doing ... Indeed, they together endowed France with a massive and rigid means of electrical production and created structurally fluctuating electrical consumption, seasonally and daily.
The result is that electric heating does not even benefit from the "carbon-free" electricity that everyone dreams of, but triggers the production of dirty electricity, at home or elsewhere. The figures for CO2 linked to electric heating can be manipulated at will, but for the 2000-2004 period ADEME and EDF had established 180 g of CO2 per kWh of electric heat. FYI with gas, it's 195 g. All that for this !!!
And the curious will no doubt find that the score has worsened with the liberalization of the electricity market which, for RTE, makes the current of lignite power plants so competitive ....

And to return to the subject ....

The Chinese will have charcoal cars, but that is the only way for them to be able to continue breathing in the city, regardless of their overall CO2 emissions.

And if we let it happen, we will have nuclear ... and Chinese cars.

In short, there is still room to support the development of EV… ..

The choice of switching to electric (in the conditions where we seem to want to do so) is an engaging option in the long term. It only remains to show that the nuclear industry is an option for the future ...

Michel

[Did67]

No, not "unique in the world": in Quebec, nearly 70% of homes are heated by electricity.

You imitate your cousins ​​who stayed on this side ??? [humor - I know that it is linked to your enormous availability of hydroelectricity, even if you also have your nuclear power stations, and not even bad at all]

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

To return to the subject, it is clear that hyper light is the best short-term solution: "Light is right"

Already systematically lower under the ton with 750 and 500kg targets and bearings.

If the article is not a fake news the average weight of a car would have increased by 57% in 50 years: absurd.
https://fr.motor1.com/news/266197/poids ... ion-etude/

Decrease the maximum potential vehicle speeds, decrease the engine displacement, decrease the weight, decrease the electronics or certain automations and their superfluous heavy electric motors ... etc