Connect a small generator on the EDF network Enedis 50 Hz 230V AC?

[sicetaitsimple]

do it at your expense and not behind a keyboard.

Personally, I have no reason to try and I do not have a generator.

But you look very sure of yourself, have you ever tried?

[Forhorse]

I also do not see any technical reason which could prevent a "Chinese" generator from being coupled to the network.
Whether the generator is synchronous or asynchronous does not change the principle and the method.
And no, there is no need for the generator to be used as a motor during startup. I explained the method and gave a concrete example in my first post about it.
Another example: I had the opportunity to witness the coupling of a hydroelectric generator of several hundred kilowatts on the grid and again put the turbine in rotation by the hydraulic force before the coupling (which takes some time because the speed adjustment is done by playing on the flow of water and given the inertia of the machine, it can take 3 lead to be in phase)
there is no history of generator engine for the start of the installation. The use in motor for startup is a special case, here too I gave an example of application of this method.

I have a group that could be used for this kind of testing but I would not do it because:
- I have no time to lose for this kind of hack (already 150 projects in progress)
- I do not have the hardware to do it (I only have a simple multimeter, whereas at least 3 is needed)
- It is necessary to modify the regulation of the engine of the generating set to be able to refine very precisely its speed of rotation, which is already in being a big project in its own right (one falls back to the point N ° 1)

[Christophe]

Good who gets stuck?

The experience is well worth a possible Chinese group to 150 € right? If I had one on hand I would try ...

But what is the method? We plug the group already running or before starting it?

On a small group the excitement is not de-connectable (but it can be fiddling maybe?), Maybe it's the secret of easy coupling (without excitation the generator, rotating, auto-synchronize on the 50Hz of the network and when it is done: one excites and the current arrives ...?)

You must "just" couple while not being far from the network frequency and not in phase opposition.

Not far away? What does it mean?

I do not believe at all in the "chance" of phase coupling ... even partial ...

[Remundo]

- It is necessary modify the regulation of the engine of the generator to be able to very precisely refine its speed of rotation, which is already in being a big project in its own right (we come back to the point N ° 1)

Oh no joke are you sure?

and yes of course ... the gegène does not know very spontaneously how to push the amps in the network ...

I have already tested genes on different loads (but never on the network) and the regulation is not very brilliant; some go to safety as soon as the "coupling", others start backfire until choking if you insist ... others trip at full power and decoupling from the load.

and that is on charges, so you can imagine if the little gegene does not agree with the national megadee .... hmmm ....

if the sinusoid of the gégène is a little higher than that of the network, then the current flows positively toward the network, the resistance between the gégène and the network is almost null, so that quickly draws too much ampere and the regulation must be extremely precise.

eg in opposite phase, the network gives Umax = 220 sqrt (2) and the opposite gene, it's just 440 sqrt (2) = 620 V potential difference!

[ENERC]

As a reminder, it is necessary inevitably insert a VDE 0126 box between the generator and the network.

If Enedis turns off the power for an intervention, an employee is wiring on the line and the generator continues to send juice, it's going to end badly (criminally and financially).
They short circuit 3 phases before intervening on the line, but if there is a doubt they will look for the cause.

Injecting without a contract is also forbidden, but it is less serious than killing someone.

[Christophe]

We agree, but the initial question concerns synchronization (V / Hz) above all else ...

And obviously, we still have no easy answer to implement, except to go through a direct current and a solar inverter (therefore meeting the VDE standard 0126) ...

[ENERC]

It was just to recall the safety basics on a forum Public.

I did this in my youth with a synchronous generator whose excitation current was controlled and a two-way oscilloscope. When the sinusoidal 2 were superimposed one switched on the network.
A group of TPs wrongly proceeded to the maneuver, big electric flash and cables of strong section burned. (The lab was doing electrical engineering and had a dedicated EDF transformer).

A synchrocoupler can be used, but the source must be controllable. This amounts to automating the manual procedure with the oscilloscope.

Otherwise with 2 motors: a synchronous motor connected to the network and an asynchronous motor on the group side. The power can be controlled by adjusting the phase shift on the asynchronous motor. When the coupling is done, the excitation on the synchronous motor can be very reduced.

[Christophe]

Ok so there is no "simple" solution ... Forhorse and Remundo had already explained it ...

[dede2002]

Thank you for all these explanations, I wondered for a long time how the power plants of an interconnected alternative network could synchronize.

In fact, to synchronize a thermal generator it takes a regime (frequency) slightly higher than the network and to couple when it is synchronized (test of the bulb). Then by slowing it will produce, it can be useful when we know that the network will cut and we do not want interruption, but if we do not disconnect we feed the neighbors.

And if the generator runs out of fuel the grid will try to maintain the generator's rpm until a circuit breaker triggers ...

[izentrop]

An asynchronous machine with dual power supply makes it possible to produce variable speed and always optimal power on the network. https://eolienne.f4jr.org/generateur_el ... asynchrone

It is used as a wind turbine generator. For a gégéne, I do not know if it is done?