The all electric viable or not?

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Spica.57
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The all electric viable or not?




by Spica.57 » 18/11/18, 09:06

After the ban of diesel vehicles, we are told the end of oil boilers.
Before these decisions I would have liked our decision-makers to think and answer these questions:

- Replaced by what?
- Regarding the electrical in the table below you have the distribution of the different modes of production, is it possible to increase enough renewable energy?
https://www.rte-france.com/fr/eco2mix/e ... nergetique
- Can nuclear power be considered "ecological" as some claim?

There are still many thoughts to be
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by thibr » 18/11/18, 09:21

nuclear is not afraid to be very green but is very little carbon, which is a priority of the moment
for the fuel oil boiler, I think it would have been necessary to tackle it a long time ago
in addition it is all good for the state as the fuel is little taxed : Mrgreen:
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by izentrop » 18/11/18, 09:28

Spica.57 wrote:- Can nuclear power be considered "ecological" as some claim?
Who is that ? CO2 issues are on the hot seat today.
we are told the end of oil boilers.
The end of the tax credit on condensing boilers, grade;)
Rectification
This mode of heating must disappear by "10 years," said the Prime Minister, who promises to "develop the premium conversion to new systems such as heat pump or wood," in parallel with an improvement of the energy check. http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/pourq ... 942569.php
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by Bardal » 18/11/18, 10:38

Spica.57 wrote:After the ban of diesel vehicles, we are told the end of oil boilers.
Before these decisions I would have liked our decision-makers to think and answer these questions:

- Replaced by what?
- Regarding the electrical in the table below you have the distribution of the different modes of production, is it possible to increase enough renewable energy?
https://www.rte-france.com/fr/eco2mix/e ... nergetique
- Can nuclear power be considered "ecological" as some claim?

There are still many thoughts to be


Yes, I too would like all energy decisions to be preceded by prior reflection; it would avoid a lot of silly comments broadcast on our media. Note, this is not a big deal, reality always ends up taking back its rights, and the laws of physics having the head much harder than that of our politicians.

On the background:

- there are 50 ways to replace the fuel oil to heat a house (natural gas, LPG, wood, pac, electricity, insulation etc); the problem is that for all substitutions, we must have anticipated when these substitutions affect a large number of operations; and that is precisely what is missing, this anticipation. We can not promise clean heating, electric cars, carbon-free ships, and the shutdown of nuclear power stations and coal-fired power plants, a drop in imports of hydrocarbons, plus the cul de sac. And still fuel is not very consumed for heating homes, but if we add the fleet, it is the equivalent of 1 and a half times the production of electricity is guaranteed; electricity produced at 75% by nuclear power, which should also be released. One wonders if these decision-makers still have all their reason ...

- No, renewable energies will not be able to do all that; not even 50% of electricity production. Our German neighbors have already spent 500 € bn to barely reach 25% of their electricity production; and they are blocked by problems of network stability (in fact assured by German coal and French nuclear power plants) and by its weakness. Incidentally, their CO2 emissions increase. And they are doing well financially, which is not quite our case. So...

-I am one of those who believe that nuclear can find its place in an ecological approach, in cooperation with other carbon-free energies; several associations claiming to be ecologically demanding such an approach (very developed in the Nordic countries), in obvious rupture with the anti-nuclear NGOs (which are not often the associations), born from the fight against the nuclear tests at the time (and personally, I was part of this fight) and not having made the effort to separate the dirty darnel military nuclear acceptable grain of civil control of the atom. Bof ... it's a debate too long for this thread.

I think that:

- the fissile and fertile resources of uranium and thorium guarantee a supply of millennia to humanity, even if it continued to spend without counting. All this is technically and scientifically available, all that is missing is a political decision (which is not a small problem, stated on a planetary scale), establishing a virtuous equilibrium with other carbon-free energies.

- this delay makes it possible to hope that nuclear fusion will be under control before the exhaustion of resources; it is true that in 2 or 3000 years, who can say today what will humanity be, if it still survives

- the impact on the environment, real (but all human activity has and will have an impact) is less important than the implementation of other alternative energies, with the considerable advantage of having a controllable energy, much less dangerous and more economic. The icing on the cake, the next generation of power plants (already under construction in several corners of the world) promises to divide the nuclear waste by 1000 or 10000, a yield of more than 50%, a cooling without water ... Byzantium what .. .

- according to my estimates of order of magnitude, quite approximate for sure, a global mix including about 25% of nuclear energy, could solve our problems of output of carbon energies; for some countries (ours in particular), it would be more than 25% ...

I forgot things ... Too bad ...
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by Exnihiloest » 18/11/18, 12:25

Spica.57 wrote:After the ban of diesel vehicles, we are told the end of oil boilers.
Before these decisions I would have liked our decision-makers to think and answer these questions:

- Replaced by what?

[pamphlet on]
But nothing better or new! We are today in the ideological, not in the pragmatic. We do not innovate, we decree, by crossing our fingers and making a joke for, after brandishing a catastrophism as ridiculous as it is foreign, to appear in a posture of savior of the planet. The icing on the cake, the blessing by the blessed-yes-ouis or fundamentalists of the environmentally correct is acquired, their infused science, their visceral inclinations and their intellectual biases having been flattered.
These absurd measures depleting everyone, we ignite the wick of what will steal our noses in a few years but then the demagos and incompetent decision-makers of today will have been replaced by others, who will lambate at all their predecessors as those of today make it theirs, these unscrupulous ones who would have brought us to the alleged catastrophes!
[pamphlet off]
- Regarding the electrical in the table below you have the distribution of the different modes of production, is it possible to increase enough renewable energy?
https://www.rte-france.com/fr/eco2mix/e ... nergetique
- Can nuclear power be considered "ecological" as some claim?

There are still many thoughts to be

Yes. Still, it would be a rational method, which requires a serenity that the ideological context prevents.
Sufficiently increasing renewable energy is no use at present to solve the problem because these energies are random, and we do not know how to store large amounts of energy to, in particular, ensure the anticyclonic periods that sometimes extend for several weeks all over Europe, especially in the winter, when wind turbines no longer produce or too little.
In addition, the network can not be stabilized without large conventional power plants that impose the frequency. The development of renewable energies should therefore sooner or later involve the construction of conventional power plants, or lead to blackouts as was the case in Australia.

Nuclear power can be considered ecological (even more if CO2 is considered a pollutant). The used fuel considered by some as unacceptable waste can however be stored. On the one hand the volumes are not huge because the energy density of uranium is nearly two million times higher than that of oil, and on the other hand scientific advances start to point elimination techniques of their radioactivity with laser processes. And when we see the future needs in blades of wind turbines, which must be renewed all 10 to 15 years and are not recyclable, we can predict the worst if we continue to develop this sector which in addition, is more expensive.


bardal wrote:... I too would like all energy decisions to be preceded by prior reflection; it would avoid a lot of silly comments broadcast on our media. ...

Totally agree with that and the other points developed.
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by moinsdewatt » 18/11/18, 19:32

Exnihiloest wrote:
bardal wrote:... I too would like all energy decisions to be preceded by prior reflection; it would avoid a lot of silly comments broadcast on our media. ...

Totally agree with that and the other points developed.


Well, it exists, it is the EPP.

https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/v ... le.N762159

https://www.edf.fr/collectivites/le-mag ... rend-forme
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by Bardal » 18/11/18, 21:06

Ben ... the last EPP had set 2025 nuclear at 50% of production; it's a tough green minister who confessed it was bullshit ... but it's not a straw.

And I leave aside the various objectives (GHG, wind, decline of the cons ...) that will not be achieved, and by far ... I leave aside the complete lack of coherence of the measures implemented, which cost anyway more than 10 Mds a year, in pure loss

Above all, we have the impression that objectives are set according to the fashions of the moment, without the means to achieve them, simply to be in tune with the times ... Like, for example, the stories of diesel, or fuel oil boilers. All this is amateurish, even "I don't care", dilettante, without any relation to the real issues. And the very close PPE 2018 seems to be announced under the same auspices ...

The worst part of it is that it is our future (and especially that of our children [remark, I do not care, I do not care about it]) and that of a lot of people who are at stake ... O tempora ...
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by izentrop » 18/11/18, 22:12

bardal wrote:Ben ... the last EPP had set 2025 nuclear at 50% of production; it's a tough green minister who confessed it was bullshit ... but it's not a straw.
The latest one has not yet taken place and should probably carry 50% back to 2035
The government is working to reduce the share of nuclear power in 50% by 2035, said Sunday the Minister of Ecological Transition François de Rugy, confirming a horizon mentioned in September by the Prime Minister.

Asked during the Grand rendez-vous Europe 1-CNEWS-Les Echos about the multiannual energy programming (PPE), which will define France's strategy over ten years and must be published before the end of the month, François de Rugy replied that 2035 was "the deadline we are working on". https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 97848.html
2035 is normally the end of construction of 6 EPR, following a report commissioned by Nicolas Hulot https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/u ... 25.N735054
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by Spica.57 » 19/11/18, 09:30

About EPR there is a doubt:

Launched in 2007, the Flamanville EPR shipyard was to last 5 years. But the delays continue and now end the work at 2020 thus generating additional costs. Thus, the project went from 3,3 millards to 10,9 billion euros.
source:
https://selectra.info/energie/actualite ... e-edf-defi

Especially when reading this article:
https://fr.news.yahoo.com/50-nucl%C3%A9 ... ccounter=1

And this one
http://www.europe1.fr/economie/nucleair ... gy-3802691
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Re: The all electric viable or not?




by izentrop » 19/11/18, 11:34

The Chinese EPR started well after Flamanville runs at full power since October https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/lepr-de- ... ur%C3%A9ly
After diverging the June 7 and being connected to the 29 June 2018 grid, the Taishan 1 reactor is progressively ramped up to reach 100% of its nominal power (1650MW) on October 30. He will soon enter commercial service. 150 km north of Hong Kong, this reactor is a great success that no one, apart from the people of the trade, comment and yet it deserves amply.

No French official has joined the concert of congratulations or even, it seems, has raised the event: it is in full EPP it is prudent not to make waves and not to speak, especially good, of the EPR! Did not the French minister remind us that the Flamanville EPR is still not put into service and that we do not know when it will be? ... some even imply that we do not even know if it will ever be and if even the technology works.

And yet yes the EPR is in service in China ... and in addition it works! and rather well. Congratulations to those who contributed to this success.
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