A new, absolutely [not] revolutionary donkey

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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 14/10/18, 18:41

Did67 wrote:
As I wrote in my "ladle calculation", it is not the kinetic energy that is at play: SUR the donkey


I am a tench in calculations on the other hand in system it is a little different this is why apart from any calculation the description of the mechanical system would interest me (wish pile Image)

It also seems to me that it is the weight at the (very brief) moment of passage of the vehicle that drives the donkey back.

I also wonder if the time of "weighing" on the donkey is sufficient to make the donkey perform a sufficient race.

But I am not stuck enough to calculate the number of cm of penetration according to the resistance of the speed bump of the weight (average) and the speed (average 15km / h?) Of the vehicles at the time of the toll.

What is certain is that no vehicle will park on the donkey, it will only pass over a small fraction of a second with each axle.

Technically it's a hell of a challenge "all weather" for the mechanism to remain in good condition: hot, cold, humidity, runoff, infiltration, salting salt, frost, ice and everything with the same characteristics of thrust, sinking and lifting regardless of the ground temperature which can vary from 0 to 60 degrees approximately
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Did67 » 14/10/18, 21:13

nico239 wrote:
It also seems to me that it is the weight at the (very brief) moment of passage of the vehicle that drives the donkey back.

I also wonder if the time of "weighing" on the donkey is sufficient to make the donkey perform a sufficient race.

But I am not stuck enough to calculate the number of cm of penetration according to the resistance of the speed bump of the weight (average) and the speed (average 15km / h?) Of the vehicles at the time of the toll.



This was another point which means that the energy collection will be significantly lower than what I calculated: for the system to sink fast enough, the pressure "harvested" must be significantly lower than that from the weight of the vehicle (otherwise, there is balance, and nothing sinks). So the pressure will have to be lower.

And finally, it will be necessary to raise the mechanism: either not of the springs, which will decrease as much the "collection" of energy (the energy lost to compress the springs will not be in the compressed air); or it is a part of the compressed air which will be used to "raise" the speed bump. Depending on the respective weight of the bar to be raised and that of the car, we will have an estimate of the losses. If the bar and the whole moving mechanism (piston, etc.) weigh 200 kg and the vehicle 1, 000% of the theoretical energy will be consumed in raising the system to its starting position ...

The slower the vehicles will pass, the more air can be collected under high pressure, close to the theoretical pressure exerted by the weight of the vehicle ...
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Did67 » 14/10/18, 21:16

nico239 wrote:
Technically it's a hell of a challenge "all weather" for the mechanism to remain in good condition: hot, cold, humidity, runoff, infiltration, salting salt, frost, ice and everything with the same characteristics of thrust, sinking and lifting regardless of the ground temperature which can vary from 0 to 60 degrees approximately


You do not mention the lateral constraints (vehicles which brake suddenly on the speed bump), the forces sideways because if some pass in the middle, others will try to pass on the side of the blow, except very sophisticated guidance (but which will weigh down and increase inertia), the system risks getting stuck "askew" ...

Independently of the question of electricity "productivity", in fact, the questions of manufacture / durability / wear will be difficult!
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 14/10/18, 21:29

Did67 wrote:You do not mention the lateral constraints (vehicles which brake suddenly on the speed bump), the forces sideways because if some pass in the middle, others will try to pass on the side of the blow, except very sophisticated guidance (but which will weigh down and increase inertia), the system risks getting stuck "askew" ...

Independently of the question of electricity "productivity", in fact, the questions of manufacture / durability / wear will be difficult!


I had assumed (in my head : Mrgreen: ) a width of the size of the roadway to simplify.

I asked the technical clarifications not MP we will see if the answer arrives ...
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Did67 » 15/10/18, 10:17

Yes, but even in this case, assuming that the system slides vertically for example on two jacks, this does not prevent there from being a "bias" action that the system will have to "take" ...

Physically, a force that you apply laterally on a system that oscillates vertically creates a torque, in addition to the vertical component transferred to the cylinder ...

We agree that all this is resolved by appropriate mechanisms. But that complicates the system, makes it heavier, more expensive and more fragile ... I am here questioning the "practical" feasibility: cost, durability, maintenance ...
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by izentrop » 15/10/18, 12:26

In general we brake before but we release the brake to pass the speed bump at around 20 km / h.
I think Christophe is right to count a little kinetic energy of inertia of the vehicle. In this case the plate rocks and the vehicle remains at the same level.

To be able to measure this, we can make a small assembly with a generator with tooth pinion, integral with a rack as for rack gates. This generator connected to a battery large enough to collect the maximum power delivered by the generator which would be around 3600 W in 1 second according to Christophe.

This is where we would see that the yield on powers as punctual in time is much lower than we think.

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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 15/10/18, 12:35

Did67 wrote:Physically, a force that you apply laterally on a system that oscillates vertically creates a torque, in addition to the vertical component transferred to the cylinder ...


Exact. :!:
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Christophe » 19/10/18, 16:00

Yes it's clear :)

izentrop wrote:the maximum power delivered by the generator which would be around 3600 W in 1 second according to Christophe


Mmmm don't take my guess for the truth.

I estimated that the TOTAL gross recoverable energy was of the order of 1Wh (it may be that 0.5 Wh) per passage but that does not mean that it is done over 1 second ... There it will depend bin the actual speed of the vehicle and the length of the speed bum finally the width but in the direction of the length of the car, it is clear? : Cheesy: And the energy coupling and transformation system ...
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Ahmed » 19/10/18, 17:30

19 pages for something like this! : Shock:
Without being opposed to such threads, I find that titles that are outrageous and include qualifiers also manifestly disproportionate (is it the influence of the pneumatic side? : Cheesy: ) should be the subject, not of censorship, but of advice to bring them back to a fairer appreciation of reality ... then if the author remains on his positions, it does not matter: ridicule is allowed.
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Re: A new revolutionary speed bump




by Christophe » 19/10/18, 17:39

At least we can say that we have gone around the subject ... and 19 pages to break a revolution in the bud is not expensive will say some : Cheesy:
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