P (otager) of P (arouseux) P (artaged) in Champagne

[Julienmos]

That's what I called somewhere, for those who have surface, build "natural nitrogen pumps", by creating a nitrogen hunger that the living system will strive to fill! In this context of extreme hunger (created by materials poor in nitrogen such as straw, sawdust, "false BRF" ...), fixation reaches its peak (this can go up to 200 kg of nitrogen fixed by ha and per year!). Fodder legumes are the champions.

To control the thistles (or are it damsels ???), mow very early, before their flowering. The legume repels very quickly. The thistle is exceeded. While providing biomass. You must mow as soon as the clover blooms. He is at his best. To push it like that 4 or 5 times in the season ...

being an annual, now that it is mowed (-it remains bits of stalk in the ground) I do not think it will repel? I think rather that it will resemer?

they are really thistles, not laiterons, of those I have everywhere else in the kitchen garden ...

yes, I had tried this experience after you proposed this way of doing ..

I still specify that only the clover of the furrows pushed, rooted in the ground. There were also a lot of seeds falling on the crushed wood between the furrows, those sprouted and sprouted a little, but quickly died when I stopped watering.

As I suppose that my mash had time to "pump" quite a bit of nitrogen from the soil under the layer, it seems that this was not a brake for the legume.

[Did67]

No, clover grows back after every mowing. If you do not tear it up. No need to water once installed, it finds the water. Even if the clover of Alexandria is less rooted than other clovers ... or alfalfa!

[Moindreffor]

I put my coffee filters under the hay, but I just realized that these filters were mostly carbon, having a small surface, I wonder if it could not participate in the nitrogen hunger that I have observed this year
to learn how to manage OM resources is not so simple

[Did67]

Except to put in "layers", we should be in the negligible !!!

I think especially, as we discussed I do not know where [really, with all these son, I get lost - answer a lot, do not notice anything], the quality of the hay.

I think the C / N can vary from maybe 10/12 with "regrowth" (or fairly early "mowing", before the cobs and "dry" stems form to maybe 50 or 70 with " old hay "already dry on the stalk at the time of mowing, late mowing, etc ... It is" full pif ", not based on data.

I do not have any data on this subject right now, but I have written it behind the ear for research and calculations this winter - there is some data on the forage quality, but we use quite different units: PDIN, MAT, MAD, not easy to convert into C / N - PDIN = Digestible proteins in the intestine when nitrogen is deficient in the ration; MAT = Total Nitrogenous Matter (including other than proteins, including non-digestible; MAD = Digestible Nitrogenous Matter, the digestible part of the total nitrogenous matter; these are basic data in the calculation of the rations, and this has been studied in length and broadly in forages; I have to find the key to "convert" to C / N!).

[QuentinDida]

Arrived now mid-July, a beginning of first observation is needed as to the effectiveness of what I did for the moment in the garden (that is to say, not much, as I had the opportunity to detail it, that is to say also what seemed useful and nothing more).

The plants purchased at the maraicher mid-May are not very glorious, it is a general statement after transplanting directly through the hay on stony soil perfectly dry and compact at the time of transplanting. Since no plant is dead and they all follow a linear growth (with a miserable derivative but not zero) I allow myself to assume that the rooting could take place and that the problem does not come from there. Moreover, the lack of water resulting in flagrant symptoms that I have never seen, I wonder about the quality of the purchased plants.

In a maraicher, hybrids F1, I wonder if the lack of performance of these purchased plants can be explained by the fact that I do not grow them as it is planned to do, that is to say under fertilizer.

Therefore, one could also consider that the low vigor of my tomato plants for example can be explained precisely by the low fertility of the substrate.

My self-produced tomatoes are still too young to compare, but I have a series of squash (which I already mentioned for the record) which, they, develop remarkably, on the same substrate, without additional favors and under the same climatic constraints etc. which in my opinion elides this hypothesis.

Can it be considered that this simple difference in the nature of the seeds explains their better adaptation to the system (= greater adaptability in the seeds bought in supermarkets, however unspecific but non-hybrid F1)?

I do not particularly want to hit the F1 hybrids, I learned from a conference of Burgundians that it was roughly a selection obtained through the crossing of thousands (?) Of weak individuals up to obtaining a suitable crossing. I did not really manage to deduce then what we did with the famous crossbreed obtained (how do we multiply it again?) And especially what interest there was to practice in this way since, presented in this way , the idea of ​​genetic selection seems fuzzy.

Moreover, I have no opinion on the question of seeds and will try to propose other results including Germinance seeds that I recovered from a grocer Lyonnais whose shop did not pay mine but had the merit of selling these famous seeds ...


For the record: here is the rise of the white and crimson clover (no difference on the young seedlings or only one of them sprouted?). Germination largely unequal in the alleys but sufficient to make their place among the dominant ruminations ... Evolution to follow, obviously.

[QuentinDida]

Here is the article published this week in the municipal bulletin of Saint-Martin-sur-le-Pré where is the garden

st martinnais.png (383.65 KIO) Viewed 3348 times

[QuentinDida]

After this mediatic interlude more or less enriching for the debate, I come back to you with the resolution to condense more my words and come more immediately to the point.

The beginning of the end of summer is approaching and I am thinking of sowing "green manures" to last until next April.
- I would have liked to have a continuous crop during autumn / winter BUT the hay was only placed last May and the opening of furrows to sow the winter vegetables (parsnips, lamb's lettuce, lettuce, rutabagas, black radish for things I had thought) seems to me a bad idea because of the weed emergence still too easy.
- Moreover, the land which I recovered being a fallow land, I was perhaps mistaken at first considering that its abundant vegetation was a sign of a "fertile" ground; because "fertile" in the natural sense does not really have to do (it seems to me) with agronomic "fertile" which, for its part, requires a surplus of nitrogen that I did not find in my wasteland as it was.

A priori, I therefore think of sowing a "classic" mixture of faba bean, white clover, vetch, sunflower at the beginning of August to "boost" the soil in nitrogen to resume next season with possibilities of higher yields (necessarily higher than this " year 0 "which is especially a year of acclimatization and observation).

Will it be possible to sow such a mixture with the hay in place? The strips are shifted to the fork and sown on the fly? We sow over? How to do it ?

Moreover, I will perhaps switch from hay to straw since it is much easier to acquire it from the grain growers of Champagne that (I recently learned) we also nickname "the three Cs: Cereals, Courchevel , French Riviera ". It would also be an opportunity to relate a very interesting conversation with the mayor of the town (himself "3C") about the ease, here, of being a farmer, and his observation that it was obviously chemistry. which made possible this great ease which contrasts with the usual image we have of the farmer (probably rather that of breeders: debts, suicides, etc.).

-> Since I intend to plant fruit trees (an apple tree, an apricot tree - in front of my south wall -, a Mirabelle de Nancy plum and a cherry tree), will sow alfalfa in August at the location of their future plantation would be interesting to facilitate rooting?

[Moindreffor]

After this mediatic interlude more or less enriching for the debate, I come back to you with the resolution to condense more my words and come more immediately to the point.

The beginning of the end of summer is approaching and I am thinking of sowing "green manures" to last until next April.
- I would have liked to have a continuous crop during autumn / winter BUT the hay was only placed last May and the opening of furrows to sow the winter vegetables (parsnips, lamb's lettuce, lettuce, rutabagas, black radish for things I had thought) seems to me a bad idea because of the weed emergence still too easy.
- Moreover, the land which I recovered being a fallow land, I was perhaps mistaken at first considering that its abundant vegetation was a sign of a "fertile" ground; because "fertile" in the natural sense does not really have to do (it seems to me) with agronomic "fertile" which, for its part, requires a surplus of nitrogen that I did not find in my wasteland as it was.

A priori, I therefore think of sowing a "classic" mixture of faba bean, white clover, vetch, sunflower at the beginning of August to "boost" the soil in nitrogen to resume next season with possibilities of higher yields (necessarily higher than this " year 0 "which is especially a year of acclimatization and observation).

Will it be possible to sow such a mixture with the hay in place? The strips are shifted to the fork and sown on the fly? We sow over? How to do it ?

Moreover, I will perhaps switch from hay to straw since it is much easier to acquire it from the grain growers of Champagne that (I recently learned) we also nickname "the three Cs: Cereals, Courchevel , French Riviera ". It would also be an opportunity to relate a very interesting conversation with the mayor of the town (himself "3C") about the ease, here, of being a farmer, and his observation that it was obviously chemistry. which made possible this great ease which contrasts with the usual image we have of the farmer (probably rather that of breeders: debts, suicides, etc.).

-> Since I intend to plant fruit trees (an apple tree, an apricot tree - in front of my south wall -, a Mirabelle de Nancy plum and a cherry tree), will sow alfalfa in August at the location of their future plantation would be interesting to facilitate rooting?

1) do not put all your eggs in one basket
you have a good grip with the town hall, so propose to recover all the wood shreds to cover a part of your wasteland, you put a good layer at least 10 cm, and you enlarge according to the arrivals, it is a parcel for later (year + 2), if you go to the straw and you can have a lot, you prepare another plot (year + 1) and the one you want to grow in 1 year you put it in hay, your straw and your shredded wood you can enrich with grass clippings
2) for your fruit trees especially not to shade your south wall, keep this sunny wall for your tomato crops, there you can already prepare the soil and see to find something to do the roof against the rain, we sell 3 polycarbonate plates or 4m long on 1 m wide, with some plates you could already get a good length
feed your soil, crops will come after

[phil53]

The cereal straw is not recommended because it is probably saturated with fungicides. This will kill the fungi and bring a lot of pollutants into your soil

[Did67]

Less radically, and probably more accurately:

a) it certainly bears the traces of fungicides used, in conventional agriculture, at the time of assembly to avoid fungi on the ears, with risks of "mycotoxins", some reputed carcinogens ... "Saturated" dramatizes a little (we could easily add 2 or 3 layers!) ...

b) I say rather that it does not help the fungi ... At the doses, diluted in the first cm of the soil, I do not know if it blocks. But sure, it doesn't help! So I avoid non "organic" straw for that, out of caution!

Many permaculturalists (almost all) use straw, probably rarely "organic", and obtain results ...