Computer ergonomics and bepo

General scientific debates. Presentations of new technologies (not directly related to renewable energies or biofuels or other themes developed in other sub-sectors) forums).
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Computer ergonomics and bepo




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 29/06/18, 12:09

Initially I just wanted to make a small topic to signal the existence of the bepo.

But as much as expanding it to everything that can be part of the computer ergonomics (who needs it).

Ergonomics brings together several sectors

software - the bepo or anything that can allow us to click less and realize faster our daily tasks on the computer

hardware - everything from chairs to screens, keyboards, mice, graphics tablets ... etc


I do not know if some of you are aware of the existence of the bepo which corresponds to a layout of letters on computer keyboards specially adapted to the French language.

With a so-called "rest" line (from a to c) that contains the most used characters in French
And then especially many of our letters accented in direct access ... ç é è ê

The Windows keyboard

official bépo.jpg
official bépo.jpg (38.2 Kio) Viewed 3888 times


The Android keyboard with Anysoftkeyboard

Image

I use it for years on Windows and Android and it is obviously a very great comfort compared to the heresy of the azerty layout that dates from the time of typewriters to prevent the stems of the keys collide. .

As can be seen a computer may be a modern tool, some of its elements have not changed for a century and are largely backward ....

The bepo website

https://bepo.fr/wiki/Accueil
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by Ahmed » 29/06/18, 12:37

It is a usual observation that old traits remain in the novelties: nothing is totally new at the first throw. Thus the first railway wagons consisted of carriages arranged on trays ... The first tools of the tractors looked like two drops of water to the tools with horse traction, then the combined possibilities of the hydraulics and the catch of force have opened the way to specific devices, until the gigantism aiding, we often come back to purely towed tools ...
In the application that is described in the previous message, it is clear that it is the operators' automatisms that are the cause of the persistence of this ergonomic keyboard and without the precedent of the typewriter, no doubt that the evolution would have been very different.
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by Diabolorent » 29/06/18, 15:47

P ** ain !!! What's this thing? : Shock:
Another trick to twist your fingers! : Cheesy:

Do you think a little about my osteoarthritis? : Lol: : Lol:

Still, I did not know at all ... as info is shame! : Oops:

I would like to tell you that I will try ... but in fact no : Mrgreen: or so to delve with colleagues :)
Whatever I'm going to fuck it on my wife's tablet without telling her anything : Twisted: she will have trouble communicating on face of goat : Lol:
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 30/06/18, 02:05

Ahmed wrote:It is a usual observation that old traits remain in the novelties: nothing is totally new at the first throw. Thus the first railway wagons consisted of carriages arranged on trays ... The first tools of the tractors looked like two drops of water to the tools with horse traction, then the combined possibilities of the hydraulics and the catch of force have opened the way to specific devices, until the gigantism aiding, we often come back to purely towed tools ...
In the application that is described in the previous message, it is clear that it is the operators' automatisms that are the cause of the persistence of this ergonomic keyboard and without the precedent of the typewriter, no doubt that the evolution would have been very different.


Yes, but after what do we do? Image

We stay in Azerty where we try to get to bepo? Image
Last edited by Adrien (ex-nico239) the 30 / 06 / 18, 02: 09, 1 edited once.
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 30/06/18, 02:09

Diabolorent wrote:P ** ain !!! What's this thing? : Shock:
Another trick to twist your fingers! : Cheesy:

Do you think a little about my osteoarthritis? : Lol: : Lol:

Still, I did not know at all ... as info is shame! : Oops:

I would like to tell you that I will try ... but in fact no : Mrgreen: or so to delve with colleagues :)
Whatever I'm going to fuck it on my wife's tablet without telling her anything : Twisted: she will have trouble communicating on face of goat : Lol:


Then it is precisely the opposite that "wring your fingers" since the main letters are all on one line.

It's in Azerty that you wipe your fingers with a delusional implantation.

For the rest it's exactly like in phenoculture ....

We laugh, it's scary, we prefer to ch ... rather than rest ...

For those who write a lot, of which I am a part, I can say that it changes your life.

Just have to push yourself a little at the c .... at the beginning.

But as this provision is embedded in our mother tongue (so in our subconscious) automatisms happen very quickly.
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by Grelinette » 30/06/18, 09:43

Hello,

I think this is an interesting subject that puts the progress of innovation ... in opposition to the (heavy) persistent shortcomings of this same innovation!

For my part, having worked for years in the computer, I am often surprised to discover the complexity or illogicality of some computer applications, or to see shortcomings on some computer applications when the problem has been solved for decades.
A simple example: it is surprising, when you ask for an invoice in a store you are used to and have been registered for a long time, that the seller does not find your listing because of an accent misplaced, a double letter or a T instead of a D! (the famous and recurrent dupond, dupont or duppond ...).

As anecdote, in the 80 years (already 30 years anyway!) I had developed a small cocktail management software (more than 1500 recipes in the database) or the search algorithm by name was not embarrassed by these uncertain spelling problems: you could ask for the recipe of the famous Bloody-Mary by typing Bloudi-mari, blouddy-meri or any other similar spelling.

In the same vein, I often noticed that when the last version of a software came out, some options went from one menu to another without really understanding why ...

Finally, I remember that at the beginning of the microcomputer, at the beginning of the 80 years, some software companies who had become reference in terms of quality and product performance, constituted very complete teams to develop their consumer applications without neglecting neither the performance nor the ergonomics of the software.
This was the case with NORTON products and we could read in the "About" menu that in the development team there was an "Ergonomist" responsible for checking the logic of use of the software.
It's been a long time that I have not seen such a qualification in development teams and I think it's often missing ... because the brains of developers has a logic different from the logic of users.
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by chatelot16 » 01/07/18, 21:07

for me the problem of ergonomics are not the letters of the alphabet that can be found without problem ... it is the function keys informatikeu, backspace, backspace sup del key cursor, which are put anywhere or on laptops of different brands

it is also the problem of shortcut keyboard that we do not even know to use it but just press the ctrl key instead of the shift key to make an irreversible action

if there is something to invent for the ergonomics it is not the passge of azerty bepo, it is rather the management of all the functions

for the azerty keyboard I will not change because a keyboard azerty is worth two
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 01/07/18, 22:00

Grelinette wrote:Hello,

I think this is an interesting subject that puts the progress of innovation ... in opposition to the (heavy) persistent shortcomings of this same innovation!

For my part, having worked for years in the computer, I am often surprised to discover the complexity or illogicality of some computer applications, or to see shortcomings on some computer applications when the problem has been solved for decades.
A simple example: it is surprising, when you ask for an invoice in a store you are used to and have been registered for a long time, that the seller does not find your listing because of an accent misplaced, a double letter or a T instead of a D! (the famous and recurrent dupond, dupont or duppond ...).

As anecdote, in the 80 years (already 30 years anyway!) I had developed a small cocktail management software (more than 1500 recipes in the database) or the search algorithm by name was not embarrassed by these uncertain spelling problems: you could ask for the recipe of the famous Bloody-Mary by typing Bloudi-mari, blouddy-meri or any other similar spelling.

In the same vein, I often noticed that when the last version of a software came out, some options went from one menu to another without really understanding why ...

Finally, I remember that at the beginning of the microcomputer, at the beginning of the 80 years, some software companies who had become reference in terms of quality and product performance, constituted very complete teams to develop their consumer applications without neglecting neither the performance nor the ergonomics of the software.
This was the case with NORTON products and we could read in the "About" menu that in the development team there was an "Ergonomist" responsible for checking the logic of use of the software.
It's been a long time that I have not seen such a qualification in development teams and I think it's often missing ... because the brains of developers has a logic different from the logic of users.


Oh it is on the software level we have a tendency to regression in terms of economy ...

Although I do not generalize because I use only specific software (or hardware) .... except to improve ergonomics and therefore increase overall laziness : Mrgreen:

A small example on mail software there are only two to my knowledge that can directly preview attachments in the mail window with one click: Outlook (although I do not have the latest version but I suppose he does) and an old version of Foxmail the 7.0.93

When we see the number of attachments that we receive this simple little "trick" saves a crazy time late in the day and avoids the innumerable openings of specific software: a pdf shot, a word and an excellent coup coup .. . for example

Everything is done in the mail software and it is very much more convenient.
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 01/07/18, 22:09

chatelot16 wrote:for me the problem of ergonomics are not the letters of the alphabet that can be found without problem ... it is the function keys informatikeu, backspace, backspace sup del key cursor, which are put anywhere or on laptops of different brands

it is also the problem of shortcut keyboard that we do not even know to use it but just press the ctrl key instead of the shift key to make an irreversible action

if there is something to invent for the ergonomics it is not the passge of azerty bepo, it is rather the management of all the functions

for the azerty keyboard I will not change because a keyboard azerty is worth two


Ben le bepo is one of the stones of the edifice of simplification for the French language it is undeniable: but one must regularly grasp a lot of text to realize it.

If it's for a few emails a day it's superfluous.

It is therefore one of the stones of the building but it is not the only one actually.

Regarding the use of multiple keys to create specific ctrl style C or V to copy and paste I advise you to use a mouse that allows you to do all this with a single click.

For a long time there was only the legendary Microsoft Trackball Explorer that is now trading between 100, 200 or 500 € on Ebay currently ...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... acat=23160

But for some time an improved clone with more programming possible, the Elecom has come to replace it.

https://www.trackballmouse.org/elecom-m ... trackball/

With that you do not ask any more questions about key combinations and of course you work much faster without having to worry about your work surface since the mouse does not use because it is a trackball.
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Re: Computer ergonomics and the bepo




by Diabolorent » 03/07/18, 08:49

What I wanted to say is that Madam has a secretarial training and she is extremely quick to type the AZERTY she knows by heart. If I change the keyboard it might be epic : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: ... but fun : Twisted:
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