polluting electric car?

[Ahmed]

Citrus, when you write:

No, CO2 (and the ancillary gases generated with it) is harmful to humans

I guess you mean: "excess CO2 is harmful to humans" ...

Although I am very reserved on the subject of the electric car, as you know, I approve the rest of your last two messages.

[I Citro]

Yes, I did not formulate well.

We agree that CO2 is not a pollutant, it is not toxic (bubbles in soft drinks). It is "only" a "greenhouse" gas.

On the other hand, the considerable volumes of CO2 and the gases emitted with this CO2 by a thermal vehicle are extremely harmful for the man, especially in a confined environment (typically in town).

The pollution of the metropolis comes from the fact of these considerable emissions in a given place where live a large concentration of human beings.
When the weather conditions are unfavorable (temperature, atmospheric pressure, lack of wind, ...) this pollution dilutes poorly and remains concentrated at the level where it was emitted and or absorbed ...

Hence the need to reduce and then remove the sources of these pollutants, which are thermal vehicles, in urban areas.

[Exnihiloest]

On the other hand, the considerable volumes of CO2 and the gases emitted with this CO2 by a thermal vehicle are extremely harmful for the man, especially in a confined environment (typically in town).
...

I have never seen a WHO alert on this subject, nor any epidemiological studies confirming it. Do you have references?

[Christophe]

And hop a new study which "turns green" the electric car on CO2 ... at least in England ...

Is an electric car really clean? An English study has just shown that their emissions CO2 / km, related to the production of electricity, try, in any case, to decrease.

Presenting an electric car as totally "clean" based solely on its absence of emission during its use is, of course, very reductive. A few weeks ago, a study by the Swedish agency for research and the environment tried to explain the ecological impact of the production of lithium batteries. The "ecological" aspect of an electric car also depends of course on the type of electricity production used during recharging. A study conducted by researchers at the Imperial College in London suggests that electricity is becoming more and more 'green' in Britain. According to their report, between April and June 2017 (ie months conducive to the production of renewable energy ...), the electricity generated contained on average 199g of CO2 / Kwh. This represents a decrease of about 10% from the minimum level found in 2016.

27g / km in i3

Based on this information, researchers have developed a CO2 / km release level for some electric models currently circulating in England. A Tesla Model S would now emit 74g of CO2 / km in winter and 41g in summer (when the share of production of renewable energies is the largest). This nevertheless represents an interesting development since the researchers specify that based on the electricity production in England of 2012, a Tesla Model S "emitted" then the equivalent of 124g / km. Lighter and less energy-consuming, a BMW i3 would emit on its side, according to this study, currently 27g / km during the summer season.

https://www.moniteurautomobile.be/actu- ... opres.html

But fortunately there is not only the CO2, see this recent info on the cost of maintenance of a Tesla S: Transportation-electric / tesloop-cost-of-derisory-maintenance-and-a-car-electric-tesla-its-480-000km-t15338.html

[Christophe]

Here is the English study at the base of the article:

170811_Drax_Q2_Report_06.pdf

(1.56 million) Downloaded times 29897

[Christophe]

On the other hand, the considerable volumes of CO2 and the gases emitted with this CO2 by a thermal vehicle are extremely harmful for the man, especially in a confined environment (typically in town).
...

I have never seen a WHO alert on this subject, nor any epidemiological studies confirming it. Do you have references?

Are you kidding or what? The "lethal" toxicity fine particles has been clearly accepted for years ... and has been the subject of several media and health campaigns, here is one of the WHO: Pollution-air / who-the-pollution-from-air-7-million-to-dead-in-2012-t13166.html

On econology we talked about it for more than 10 years: Health-pollution-prevention / the-dead-of-the-pollution-t1901.html
pollution air / pollution-by-the-particle-diesel-t1498.html

Etc. ..

Afterwards, I admit that Citro’s formulation was clumsy since it talks about gas ... particles just like other pollutants such as PAH, VOC ... are not strictly speaking but they are part of the "exhaust gas"...

[chatelot16]

citro does not talk about fine particles! he's talking about CO2! everyone has already undergone a particularly high CO2 level when there are many in a poorly ventilated room ... the rate of CO2 can be considerably higher than the normal atmosphere without danger to health

in the city pollution by the engine has nothing to do with the CO2 ... but rather with NOx or fine particles

and with the confusion that the particles do not come only diesel ... petrol too modern has bizarre injection also make the particle ... and the wear of the road and tires ... and wood heating

I have never seen a serious study to explain the origin of the particles that are measured in the air ... we are content to say that diesel make more particle than gasoline and we put all on the diesel back

[Christophe]

He said well:

...and gases emitted with this CO2 by a thermal vehicle are extremely harmful to humans

So he was not just talking about CO2 ...

For the studies those in download on econology are nevertheless quite complete, they are linked here: Health-pollution-prevention / the-dead-of-the-pollution-t1901.html

[moinsdewatt]

And hop a new study which "turns green" the electric car on CO2 ... at least in England ...

Is an electric car really clean? An English study has just shown that their emissions CO2 / km, related to the production of electricity, try, in any case, to decrease.

Presenting an electric car as totally "clean" based solely on its absence of emission during its use is, of course, very reductive. A few weeks ago, a study by the Swedish agency for research and the environment tried to explain the ecological impact of the production of lithium batteries. The "ecological" aspect of an electric car also depends of course on the type of electricity production used during recharging. A study conducted by researchers at the Imperial College in London suggests that electricity is becoming more and more 'green' in Britain. According to their report, between April and June 2017 (ie months conducive to the production of renewable energy ...), the electricity generated contained on average 199g of CO2 / Kwh. This represents a decrease of about 10% from the minimum level found in 2016.

27g / km in i3

Based on this information, researchers have developed a CO2 / km release level for some electric models currently circulating in England. A Tesla Model S would now emit 74g of CO2 / km in winter and 41g in summer (when the share of production of renewable energies is the largest). This nevertheless represents an interesting development since the researchers specify that based on the electricity production in England of 2012, a Tesla Model S "emitted" then the equivalent of 124g / km. Lighter and less energy-consuming, a BMW i3 would emit on its side, according to this study, currently 27g / km during the summer season.

https://www.moniteurautomobile.be/actu- ... opres.html

It should be noted that in England the consumption of coal for thermal power plants is decreasing:

The UK still halves its use of coal

Blueberry Delamarche Factory New the 31 / 08 / 2017

The use of coal in British power plants is endangered, as announced by London at the COP22 in Marrakech. In July, it reached its lowest rate since 135 years in the British electric mix.

Great Britain, which promised a total halt to the use of coal to produce electricity by 2025, is well on track to meet this commitment. In 2016, CO2's most emitting fossil fuel accounted for only 9% of electricity generation, compared to 23% the previous year.

And in July, that rate fell to 2%, half of its share for the same month of 2016, according to a study by Aurora Research. Yet, in July 2015, Britain was still 22% fueled by coal. "This decline is partly the result of the recent rise in coal prices, but also linked to the deployment of renewable energies," Richard Howard, research director at Aurora, told British daily The Independent.

A day without coal

On April 21, the country had held a day without using coal. Yet "ten years ago a day without coal was unimaginable," comments in The Independent Hannah Martin, […]

http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/le ... on.N581078

[Janic]

Toyota invents neodymium-light magnets to advance the electric
Sea 21 / 02 / 2018 - With less rare earths.

http://www.moteurnature.com/29264-toyot ... electrique

It's the hidden side of the electric car. We all know the need for batteries, so lithium, and also cobalt and copper, but the worst is probably in rare earths. Materials in fact not so rare (there are in France, it would be possible to open a mine), but whose extraction is particularly harmful to the environment. It is no coincidence that the rare earth mines are located in China, Tanzania or North Korea. Countries where regulations protecting the environment have huge gaps.

These rare earths are used to make magnets that are essential to any electric motor. Without magnet, electric cars or wind turbines, and when the growth forecasts are increasing for both, the rare earth market has become, in a few years, terribly speculative. There has even been a crash already, but today we hear the idea that there might be a shortage between 2020 and 2025. It is, however, very difficult to make forecasts, since everything depends on what China will agree to do to maintain its current production, or even increase it, and how much this country will want to sell to others.

The only respectful solution for the long term is to reduce the need for rare earths in the manufacture of magnets suitable for the electric motor of an automobile. It's almost pure research. This requires in any case a lot of resources, which is not within the reach of a young manufacturer like Tesla. Nissan has already worked there, like Honda, but today it is Toyota that takes the hand, by presenting new magnets without terbium (Tb) nor dysprosium (Dy), and with 50% of neodymium in less, compared to classic magnets. The missing neodymium has been replaced by lanthanum (La) and cerium, which are much more common and affordable. The big challenge was to reduce neodymium without reducing performance or heat resistance, but Toyota engineers did it. This is where we see that some manufacturers see further than others ...