Beginner's Phenoculture: planting in the soil or in the hay?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Beginner's Phenoculture: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by Christophe » 15/05/17, 12:59

Like many of us I start a lazy vegetable garden in Didier Helmstetter (Did67 on forums) :). So this is my first planting. See this topic for some photos and information on starting the vegetable patch: agriculture / how-to-start-a-lazy-simpler-than-permaculture-vegetable-garden-steps-and-advice-t14895.html

I planted a few seeds a few weeks ago and I think it's time to transfer them to the vegetable patch.

At the vegetable patch, I pulled out some weeds that pierced the hay layer and whose roots are, for about half, exclusively in the hay (i.e. not in the ground ... and that they are very easy to tear off).

So I ask myself the following question: should it be planted in the ground (ie by disturbing the biological balance of the phenoculture) or in the hay (at ground level)?

In my case there will necessarily be a little earth with the roots ...

Same remark when sowing? Is it necessary to dig or lift the hay enough?

ps: sorry if the question has already been asked ... i'm a bit intellectually lazy at the moment : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by Christophe » 15/05/17, 14:18

Here are some photos of illustration of roots in the hay, also I crossed some small snails, see last photo (good or bad sign for my future vegetables ???)

garden_love_ardennes_DSC06038.JPG

garden_love_ardennes_DSC06039.JPG

garden_love_ardennes_DSC06040.JPG

garden_love_ardennes_DSC06041.JPG

garden_love_ardennes_DSC06042.JPG

garden_love_ardennes_DSC06043.JPG
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by denis17 » 16/05/17, 13:10

If I followed correctly, the direct sowing in the ground, and all that is transplanting close to the ground. : Wink:
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by Did67 » 16/05/17, 14:24

Don't take it the wrong way, but the "phenoculture" is "on the move":

- I used to sow in the earth, slightly "scratched" with my 3-finger manule tool, over 1 or 2 cm, all at the bottom of the furrows

- I planted the seedlings in pots in the earth, after having "opened" a hole in the hay

- I planted the bulbs half in the ground, without opening a hole

Basically.

And then paysan.bio has shaken all that up a bit. No doubt sometimes right: I still try to assess the "phytotoxicity" that hay can develop on the first leaves of certain plants.

It also avoids the "delay" in ignition by planting in small piles of soil (or potting soil) placed on the hay, on the surface. What is Sioux!

I invite you to try both techniques, to compare them "all other things being equal" (half of the plants of the same series, same variety, same date of planting, same hay, same plot). This is the only way we will see more clearly, especially of course if you record the observations (photos!).

Rather than practicing a "conventional phenoculture" which is perhaps not free from certain nonsense!
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by denis17 » 16/05/17, 15:15

Absolutely, my answer is actually only part of the answer : Wink:
Besides, I'm going to try peasant techniques for testing tomato plants on nettles, as well as for sowing then transplanting carrots.
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 31/05/17, 21:11

For transplanting

Personally I plant in the ground and I surround it with straw

My wife LAYS the bucket of earth directly ON the earth (without doing anything else) and surrounds it with straw

And both work ....

I think I'll do like her in the end, but honestly at first I didn't believe it

Test both and tell us
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by Did67 » 31/05/17, 22:10

I made both with the same salad plants, in clods, bought:

a) the majority, I put in the ground, through the hay, by "digging" just the size of the root ball

b) I laid three of them by simply spreading the hay; of these 3, one was bitten by a wireworm larva (chance).

While ALL the clods planted in the ground became beautiful apples, at normal speed, the two clods were barely rooted and tiny.

I specify: same soil, never worked, converted a little more than a year ago from the grass ...
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by Ahmed » 31/05/17, 22:24

With the potatoes, it would also be necessary to compare the laying in the surface soil and that on the ground: I put everything on the ground and I find that it does not advance quickly (less than the bindweed!).
I would like to know if, next year I continue to lay on the ground, but with three weeks in advance to compensate (under the hay, I do not fear frost), or if it is better to plant lightly, which is still not a big job ... Or, if a "mixed" method would not be preferable: put on the ground and cover the opening of the hay with compost from the recycling center ...
What is boring is that in biology, experiences are limited by the seasons ... : roll:
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by Did67 » 01/06/17, 09:48

Ahmed wrote:With the potatoes, it would also be necessary to compare the laying in the surface soil and that on the ground: I put everything on the ground and I find that it does not advance quickly (less than the bindweed!).


I partially did the test 4 or 5 years ago, but under pure BRF:

1/3: digging / conventional cultivation (hoeing, hilling)
1/3: furrows, put pdt, closed, covered with BRF
1/3: placed on the ground / BRF

The returns were diminishing, in that order, but not to the point of justifying the effort
The grass cover at harvest was decreasing in that order! [edit did67: I corrected myself: it is indeed decreasing - the pure BRF was the cleanest, by far]
No more green potatoes in modality 3 [edit did67: I added that]
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Re: Phenoculture of the beginner: planting in the soil or in the hay?




by olivier75 » 01/06/17, 10:07

Ahmed,
I tried it out. 5 lines of 5 feet, from mouliné to posed on meadow under hay. So far no real difference.
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