water heating selection (electric or gas)

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goodspeed_11
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water heating selection (electric or gas)




by goodspeed_11 » 08/03/17, 16:00

Hello,

I am renovating an apartment of around 65m2. As such, I will install a new system to heat the water.
My apartment is a 3P and has a city gas supply.
I went first on an electric water heater (150 or 200L). The disadvantage of this solution is the space, I am indeed a little limited and if I could limit the size it would always be a plus!
I presented my solution to the heating engineer who carries out all of the piping and advised him rather to use a gas water heater (bath / suction cup).

Which solution is the most economical? I am absolutely not against making an investment, but if I can get a minimum on my legs after x years, it would be cool: p

Here are my elements:
*** Electric water heater
+ large capacity
+ silent
+ price (approx 400th)
- double tariff subscription
- energy-consuming (heats whatever the water consumption of the day)
- bulky

*** Gas ​​water heater (bath / suction cup)
+ instant heating (energy efficient)
+ space-saving
+ lifespan
+ unlimited quantity of water
- noisy
- gas subscription (but simple tariff subscription for EDF)
- annual maintenance (approx 100th / year?)
- price (approx 1000th for a suction cup model)

Could you let me know by your advice / feedback? Thank you
I specify that the apartment will be composed (shower + sink + sink + (VMC hygro B))
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chatelot16
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by chatelot16 » 08/03/17, 16:57

goodspeed_11 wrote:*** Electric water heater
+ large capacity
+ silent
+ price (approx 400th)
- double tariff subscription
- energy-consuming (heats whatever the water consumption of the day)
- bulky

false: an electric water heater only heats what is necessary to heat the cold water that has entered to compensate for the hot water that we have consumed

the thermal insulation quality of the tank is good enough for the consumption necessary to maintain the temperature to be very low

dimensions can be discussed: the balloon can appear large, but there is no constraint around: we can put it anywhere and we can put anything around

the gas water heater seems smaller, but it is a gas appliance with multiple constraints: distance to be respected around without combustible material: requirement of permanent ventilation of the room where the water heater is placed, quite ruinous in heat loss so of energy, and even worse when some block the ventilation and the water heater suffocates everyone with the least clogged smoke pipe

methane gas is cheaper than electricity, but the efficiency of gas water heaters is quite low, while the efficiency of electric heaters is practically 100%, and even exactly 100% in winters since the only loss of the heaters is through its insulation, and the heat lost by the balon heats the house ... the heat lost by the gas water heater comes out through the chimney

also false that the amount of hot water in the tank is limited: it is limited if it only heats at night, but if necessary you can also heat it during the day, it's just a little more expensive, but c is practical for occasional needs

there are 200l balons at much less than 400 euros: an electric balon is a very simple thing and I find that the low-end gives satisfaction as well as the big brands: I find that it is not there must put too much money
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by goodspeed_11 » 08/03/17, 17:17

Thanks for your return.

Consumption remains higher. Why else would people take gas water heaters?
For a Sauter Essential, we have 1455 kWh / year
For a gas water heater, we have 15 kWh / year

Which still makes a difference (I guess)
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by chatelot16 » 08/03/17, 19:00

where do these figures come from? all depending on the amount of hot water consumed

to compare the 2 water heaters, calculate their consumption with the same amount of hot water

only one thing is sure the gas water heater will consume more kWh than the electric water heater since the efficiency of the gas water heater is less good

I am suspicious of your too low figure: it would not be the consumption of electricity of the gas water heater, forgetting the consumption of gas?
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by Meszigues3 » 09/03/17, 20:02

goodspeed_11 wrote:Consumption remains higher. Why else would people take gas water heaters?
...
Which still makes a difference (I guess)
Hi,
It should be remembered that heating the DHW costs (roughly, depending on the subscription, especially gas):
The same price as the supply of water in the case of an electric water heater,
Half of the water supply in case of gas water heaters.

So do not base your choice too much on the cost difference which remains negligible.

« Why else would people take gas water heaters? »
Because they already have a gas water heater for heating the apartment, and there the difference in cost is not negligible.
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by goodspeed_11 » 13/03/17, 11:19

Hello everybody

Indeed, after more detailed calculations, in my case the gas is not interesting ...
On the cost of consumption, it is slightly lower or equivalent to that of an electric water heater.
By cons by adding the gas subscription (approx 95th) + annual maintenance (approx 100th), we are much more expensive

Off topic
Here is my calculation:
> GAS water heater
- Chaffoteaux 14FF (3632172) 10kWh and 12GJ (class A) - L
12GJ = 277.8 x 12 kWh = 3Kwh
Gas tariff (B0 and under 6000): 0.07640 € / kWh
= 250th / year
+ subscription (95th)
+ maintenance (100th)
= 445th
When an electric water heater that consumes 2000kWh (annual) ultimately costs about = 2000 x 0.127 = 250e / year

Finally, I therefore opted for an electric water heater. So there was my space problem ..
And there I came across the extra flat water heaters: Thermor Malicio - Atlantic Linéo - Ariston Vélis
I took the Malicio 80L thermor (class C, 1505kWh / annual), P: 29cm, L: 49cm, H: 130cm with soapstone resistance: perfect!
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by LOGIC12 » 13/03/17, 14:48

Hello,

First of all what is there as heating in this accommodation?

Isn't there an individual gas boiler?

Is this accommodation for yourself or for rental?

Either way, if you're talking to a plumber, it will ALWAYS push for gas, when it's not that great by far.
Already, as for a boiler, there is a mandatory maintenance per year (around 80 to 100 euros) With an electric water heater: zero maintenance.

The off-peak rate is no longer very attractive, so you don't necessarily need to take a large capacity, especially if you only take showers.

With gas installations, there are multiple controls and new standards to meet ... so here, I wish you ...

Regarding the consumption of the electric water heater, the consumption is above all proportional to the water consumed. There is the maintenance consumption which remains low because the tanks are insulated, moreover if it is in a heated place, it remains very low.

There is no point in having a gas water heater, unless you want to talk about a gas boiler that provides heating by central heating radiators and domestic hot water. therefore only one device for the two functions.
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by goodspeed_11 » 13/03/17, 14:57

As said and after reflection, I share your opinion.

To answer your questions :
> there is currently a collective gas heating
> this accommodation will initially be for rental (which entails an additional cost for the tenant if choosing a gas bath heater)
> I actually think that the cost depends a lot on the use of water (which has been reduced over time: showers, flow reducers, etc.)

Just for the sake of simplicity, the electric water heater interested me more. But size was a problem for me, with little space available. With the new types of electric water heaters (smaller and smarter), I solved my problem :)

Simplification, durability and cost under control :)
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by LOGIC12 » 21/02/18, 03:41

Hello, For only a water heater, the off-peak rate is no longer very attractive, because the savings between off-peak hours and peak hours are absorbed by the difference in subscription prices.

What you need to know: is there a SHOWER or TUB?
If there is only one shower, a 75 liter can be enough, on the other hand if you take baths (more and more rare these days, people want to save) so for baths you would need a 100 liters, that's what you find in condominiums.

Large capacities like 200 liters, it is especially to be used in Off-peak hours. Indeed, as the heater only has electric current at night, a good reserve is necessary, but if the heater has electricity all day long, it does not need such a large capacity. And the resistance does not work continuously, but only when the thermostat gives it current. The consumption is above all proportional to the draws. And we adjust the water to 55 ° or 60 ° approximately.
In addition, with a gas water heater, instinctively we consume more, because we tend to open the taps fully. With an electric water heater you get used to consuming less. A word of advice, put aerators on the taps and an economical shower.

It is necessary to explain to the tenants that the consumption is a function of the drawings, because, even if it is obvious, some do not realize, and the consumption of water can be important.

By the way, and until then, how was hot water produced ??? there had to be something.

In any case, given the constraints (installation standards) that there are with gas, personal, I gave, and now it is as neat as possible. And not to mention the mandatory maintenance that the tenants do not even think of doing ...
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Re: Choice of water heater (electric or gas)




by BaudouinLabrique » 24/02/18, 17:35

THINK OF OVERSIZE YOUR BOILER (and other buffer tank)

I just opened a Topic that will show you how to do it at and very little of charges
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