Lambda an entire tube thatched panel glued?

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Obamot
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by Obamot » 06/11/15, 21:28

Wouawouh, you have probably found the solution to my cogitations since this summer Ahmed!

It looks great this papercrete: (contraction of paper / paper and concrete / concrete) just excellent, thank you very much:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liant_papier

It gives me immediately the idea of ​​improving the process ( : Lol: )
I'm thinking of a sandwich:
The "chaumcrete", with large lemonade and potion of fries! (starch as a binder, and lemonade for laying between batches) is missing more than the milkshake!

Right here:
http://www.escales-construction.com/ind ... &Itemid=10

... potato starch is used as a binder in a coating for finishing (mixing):

- fine sieved sand (4 volumes)
- sieved clay (1 volume)
- potato starch (0,1 volumes) cooked in 1 water volume
- water (2 volumes).

All this opens new paths ...
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by Ahmed » 06/11/15, 22:14

I made some tests of blocks of papercrete and it is true that it is interesting ...
A friend used this process in full size: he poured a paper / lime / sand mixture between the framework of a workshop extension; he kept the formwork in planks inside for the layout and the exterior remained rough. He preferred to add sand for better weather resistance because he did not want to make a coating. His main motivation was the low cost.

I wonder about the behavior of starch and its relevance to lime?
At one point, you talk about sealing, but the permeability to water vapor is an important asset ...
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by hic » 07/11/15, 10:14

Here is the useful THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY (l)
in W / (mK) compressed straw 0,052

Except that my panel is not compressed
So what is the lambda of uncompressed straw, glued?



it will be a panel weighing less than 40kg / m3




Compressed straw
- transversely in the direction of the straw
- in the direction of the straw
80 r 120
0,052
*** http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTex ... rieLien=id ***
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by Obamot » 07/11/15, 11:21

According to the RT2000 the thermal conductivity of an air space would be lower:

Thickness (mm) / Resistance ((m²·K) / W)
5 / 0.11
7 / 0.13
10 / 0.15
15 / 0.17
25 / 0.18
50 / 0.18
100 / 0.18
300 / 0.18

The interesting point and to note that from a certain thickness, coef ceiling, hold .. like ...

As already said, if it's not airtight, it's a bit like having a wool sweater on your back, with a gust of wind the stored heat goes away, and it works as far as it there is a steady supply of semi-prisoner heat into the air ...

It deserves to be advanced (not normal that the air gap is better than an insulation ... considering the loss in convection which must also be calculated for a bale of straw, I presume ...), there is absolutely no reason for think it could not be! (But without that the coef remains very theoretical).

And be careful not to mix the units, you seem to speak of the coefficient U which is its inverse expressed in W / (m²·K)

@Ahmed: indeed, the starch would not be to use / advise in this mix, it is rather moreover what it would be well to avoid since the sugar attracts the xylophages, which is why the papercrete is quite brilliant, I thought rather use red earth with bauxite in it, actually (material found on site ... which would replace all or part of the sand, and there the starch can possibly replace the cement, since it sticks the paper and 'we use it in the local mud, as mentioned by the link ... But that implies taking care of the foundations to have walls that remain "dry"). I am inclined to abandon starch ... Especially since bauxite by nature contains aluminum (return to Roman cement, lime mortar? Which contains more aluminum than silicon, or papercrete to base of ...). See how this earth can intervene in the mixture: either replace the volcanic slag of the original pozzolana, or see on site how they do to adapt it to the papercrete (testing is required and strongly recommended! ^^) find a good mix not to use portland cement would be the icing on the cake which would save a lot of gray energy, see if it would be possible with the papercrete!
Is there any pozzolan there (there are volcanoes), I do not know, no doubt, by cons there is already sea water ... ^^

Regarding the sealing, there must be clear, it is not total (it is seen with the vapor barriers that leave just filter what is needed ... they are of several types). So yes I confirm, hermeticity ad hoc, but not absolute: controlled!
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by hic » 07/11/15, 14:54

Obamot wrote:According to the RT2000 the thermal conductivity of an air space would be lower:

Thickness (mm) / Resistance ((m²·K) / W)
5 / 0.11
7 / 0.13
10 / 0.15
15 / 0.17
25 / 0.18
50 / 0.18
100 / 0.18
300 / 0.18

The interesting point and to note that from a certain thickness, coef ceiling, hold .. like ...

Hi Obamot

To simplify

the best insulation, after the vacuum, is the air without convection

So the best insulation is an airgel that weighs 2kg / m3
composed of 1kg of air separated into microbubbles and 1kg of airgel

And the best lambda is still the lightest insulation with the smallest air bubbles

It's not that simple?


The lambda of the straw thatch, whole, uncompressed and glued does not exist!
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Re: Lambda of a sticky whole-tube thatch?




by franzlim » 02/04/16, 23:34

Hello,
I just registered to answer this thread.

According to the sources we find different lambda for stubble. The national association of roofers who talk about lambda of 0,065 (internal mail), which must correspond to "Other insulating materials based on plant fibers" whose density is between 60 and 200 kg / m3 in annex IX of the Decree of December 28, 2012 (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000026871753&dateTexte=20160402)
In the journal Ekologic No. 39, June / Jul 2014 pp. 40-48 E. Karolyi in his article Constructing Thatch, the Thatch in three techniques, speaks of a lambda of 0.056.

After, there is surely a difference between the use of rye and reed, but I think it will not look far.

In addition, "thatch panels" are already used, for example on the building of the Loire-Atlantique Développement agency (I do not know the manufacturing technique). Similarly, doormats (http://www.pailleetpaillon.fr/le-paillasson) were used to make the walls of some houses in the Camargue. I also know of people who used it as a thin insulator indoors.

French
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