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swift2540
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 383
Registration: 04/08/08, 00:48
Location: Liege
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by swift2540 » 24/01/11, 23:58

WAOUW,
atmosphere here : Lol:
I really do not see why to be so excited on this thread ...
Instead, help Dedeleco find a solution to its problem:
Replacing the gas boiler with something simple, efficient, never broken down, ...
Simple, he answered himself throughout his (too many) interventions:
1) turn off the gas boiler
2) make a hole under the house
3) fill it with pebbles to store heat for months (picked up here and there, exercise is good for your health! X5)
4) put some inexpensive solar panels (we don't get plucked anyway! X10)
5) put on a wood stove (free heat, just picked it up, but exercise is good for your health re! X5 and fat this time)
6) do not forget the air inlet so as not to add to the list of dead CO (in bold color underlined with 10 !!!)
7) sit in your armchair by the fire, contemplating your fire and thinking that you have done really well to cancel your gas subscription (another hell of a bunch of thieves)

voili voilou it is all solved problem : Cheesy:
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Sometimes it is better to stop, reflect, and ask the right questions ...
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dhaulagiri
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 106
Registration: 07/01/11, 21:57
Location: Gard
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by dhaulagiri » 25/01/11, 00:53

I admit having skipped lines in Dédé's answer: seniority is therefore starting to have its effect. Unfortunately, reading every other line does not reveal, as in George Sand's letter to Alfred de Musset, a new subliminal message. But fortunately, the essential was for me in the first one: here I am considered as a rich person. Well then! And what allows you to say that, because, me, I do not know?

It's funny but by dint of observing which threads you flood and which speeches you hold, I think more and more it is not Ökofen that you hate but those who bought one. Perhaps a form of jealousy that this new message does not contradict. Frustration, too, perhaps, of not having one. Short. If for jealousy room for doubt is allowed, for masochism on the other hand, the diagnosis is confirmed: you are told that if you enter, you will take a mandate and, bing, not missed, you enter with your best profile . God, what a gift of self!

Ah yes: on the question of poverty, one clarification: I bought the house with a De Dietrich gas boiler and an empty propane tank. The boiler dated from 1995 and was working: when we moved in, we started it up for a week and a half so as not to curdle (too much) while waiting for the pellet boiler to be in service. Conclusion: by "heating" to 13 ° the night and 15 ° the day, I spent more than 100 € of gas. Well, we helped ourselves ...

In the longer term, an alternative:

> I keep the propane and the boiler. In 10 years: € 1800 of propane per year (average consumption of previous occupants, excluding DHW) or € 21600. Add to this a probable change of boiler: let's say € 3500 for a gas condensing boiler installed. € 25100 in total. And I do not count the possible security deposit for the tank (according to propaniers). FYI, the previous owner had 9000F which had been sleeping for 15 years. You have to be able to do without ...

> I go to the pellet. In 10 years, on the basis of an estimated consumption of between 3,5t and 4t per year (let's say 4t, to count large) during a fairly serious heat balance: 250 € / t, seller's price in my village, excluding negotiation (some obtained 230 € / t and knowing that the south is rather an expensive region): 1000 € / year or 12000 €. Let's add the price of my installation, public insofar as I published it on another forum to ask the opinion of other buyers (Did can confirm): € 13000. Of these € 13000, I will recover € 3500 in tax credit. Let's add the cost of self-construction of my silo: 500 € (I am counting very large to simplify the accounts, because it is in fact less than 400 €). Total, after deduction of the tax credit: € 22000, so a few thousand less anyway. And a return on investment of about 8 years, I hope.
I have nothing to add, except that I am more consistent with my aspirations. Of course, there are contingencies that can later bias these calculations: breakdowns, increase in fuel prices (even if I am not very worried about propane). And then, I could have been wrong in my estimates ...
Obviously, you have to be able to invest. But is investing more to pay less for operation better than investing less to pay more each year? I made my choice and you have the right to see things differently. We each have our own wallet ...
Therefore, I am not rich but I hope to be a little more rich in 10 years or to be a little less poor, as desired. I could also have done without heating but at 100000 € the 700m² land, the Gard did not give me the possibility of building a passive house. Maybe someday...

In your mind, having a baby is probably as economically pointless as investing in an Okofen machine: it's a source of problems, it's expensive and the return on investment is very long and above all uncertain. Yet the poor do a lot. How do you explain that, then? Better, how do you explain it to ... your own children, if you have any? Really, that interests me, even on a thread devoted to an Ökofen boosted with town gas.
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dedeleco
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9211
Registration: 16/01/10, 01:19
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by dedeleco » 25/01/11, 02:49

Swift2540 :D did not read what I write well, because pebbles are perfectly useless, again an inaccurate idea:
no pebbles in:

http://www.dlsc.ca/borehole.htm
just holes !!
and no more need for wood !!


Finally for dhaulagiri, annoyed to be cataloged rich, just after having amortized the boiler (gain 800 € per year or 12 years, if I can follow the calculations where 10x1000 = 12000!), The progress on pellet boilers will be so much large that it will be necessary to buy another much more efficient, etc.
In my case, city gas is much cheaper, without a tank !!
In addition the gas boiler has no maintenance over 25 years, how much for the Okofen? , works a winter even if absent a month or more, which I doubt pellets !!
I can save money by putting free logs and pruning logs in the fireplace, without touching my town gas boiler, which will work less !!

I try to invest with the best solution, among a beautiful collection, so as not to have any regrets, reason to inquire and see the surprises in use.

For children, all the more numerous as they are poor, it is an instinctive behavior of humans, tens of millions of years old, which allows us to still exist after having almost become one of the species that disappeared there is. 75000 years, (or as Neanderthal 45000 years), and which in the difficult conditions of poverty and insecurity, where many children die before being adults, is the only way to maintain the species by making many children for that there are at least two left !!

This behavior is much older, since we were mammals, more than 250million years ago, which allowed us to survive by multiplying like rats in the shade of dinosaurs and to diversify after their disappearance !!
The only way to decrease our multiplication is to improve our living conditions !!
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dhaulagiri
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 106
Registration: 07/01/11, 21:57
Location: Gard
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by dhaulagiri » 25/01/11, 09:17

Finally for dhaulagiri, annoyed to be labeled rich, just after having amortized the boiler (gain 800 € per year or 12 years, if I can follow the calculations where 10x1000 = 12000!)


Upset me? No, I don't give you enough credit for that. I was only trying to rectify a prejudice you have the secret, by the way, and on a subject that I am obviously the only one of us who can know. How can you judge without knowing anything about my installation? Do you only know the price differences of the boilers of the brand according to their power? All of this is once again your hallmark. That of your boiler, we do not know it, but that of your character, yes. On a forum like this one, it is fashionable that it is rather the reverse. I also note that you start with a quarter turn! But let's move on.

Since you read my messages carefully, which is once again not reciprocal, I correct the errors that you have rightly noted: I multiplied the annual sum by 12 thinking I had to deal with a monthly sum. But in reality that doesn't change anything, since I made the mistake in both projections. So I redo a clearer calculation:

> propane: € 1800 / year x 10 + € 3500 for a new boiler. € 21500 in total.
> pellet: € 1000 / year x 10 + € 10000 installation (minus the tax credit). € 20000 in total.
The return on investment, which I had initially calculated over 10 years, therefore remains theoretically to my advantage (I underline to please you). You could remove the replacement of the old gas boiler that would not change nearly nothing to do (I underline again to make you happy) ... And, anyway, the economic motive is not everything: once again, I am also consistent with myself : Cheesy:

Finally, I give you a very personal opinion on town gas. I have no doubt that someone more enlightened than me will correct me if necessary.

For now, I say "for now", it is very inexpensive. But at home, driving is 100m. First thing: to connect, it costs me as much as a pellet installation. No more advantageous therefore.

Now let's say that I am already connected: for the moment, from an economic point of view only, it is interesting to run on gas. But for how long. How much has this energy increased in recent years, even though its tariff is regulated? How long do you think the state will cash in on its sale at a loss? Not to mention the scarcity of gas, it is also extracted in areas of high geopolitical tension: this accentuates the risk factor and increases its economic and social cost. And there, my Dede, you become as you imagine us, the okofenophiles: a good idiot who undergoes the rise and who grits his teeth by paying his ever higher bill. And clenching your teeth is always shutting your mouth! To your credit: the rise in gas is slow but inexorable. The day its price will be totally crippling, you will probably be dead. Me no, well normally (still a question of projection ...). So I anticipate a little more than you ...

In conclusion and as the other said: we are always someone's jerk ... : Idea:
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manet42
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 631
Registration: 22/11/08, 17:40
Location: Lorraine




by manet42 » 25/01/11, 10:23

Good morning all..
The night brings advice, I found the solution:
Zapping to dedicate

As soon as I see Dedeleco in the margin, I move on to the next message. We don't lose anything :P
I will do it also on this post, having said what I had to say in the terms of our illustrious president!
"Goodbye the dedicate, I liked you you know .."

JC
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Continually trying we finally succeed. So more it fails, the more likely it is that it works.
dedeleco
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9211
Registration: 16/01/10, 01:19
x 10




by dedeleco » 25/01/11, 19:05

manet42 states:
Confirmation:
I started computer science very late (57 years old) I struggled with pleasure, it continues with each new software! I found the same thing with the Razz boiler


and therefore manet42 will "struggle with pleasure" much more, on Visual Basic to automatically put in your browser the deletion of all dedeleco posts:
What would be good would be to be able to delete on your computer the messages that you do not want to read on a post ...
As soon as I see Dedeleco in the margin, I move on to the next message. We don't lose anything
Goodbye the dedicate, I loved you, you know.
With the exception of this thread, which we said it was dedéléco!


With firefox, you can have the source code for free, "hassle" assured, but much less than with Internet Explorer !!!

but after this beautiful "galley", he will be able to sell this Eliminator program or "zapping to dedé"(in extension to firefox), to censor everything you don't want to see, in parental control as well as in countries that are not sufficiently censored!

Finally, do not try to explain to the "galley shadoks" that they are pumping a vacuum and that they could easily turn their thumbs !!
Because then, if we explain to them that they could no longer pump, they react with strong reactions such as:
Poor idiot
your delusions of mental illness
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aerialcastor
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 865
Registration: 10/05/09, 16:39
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by aerialcastor » 25/01/11, 19:24

He happens to be worse than Sir-Clandestino and that is a great feat, we must admit.
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Save a tree, eat a beaver.
It is no use to succeed in life, what it takes is to miss his death.
dedeleco
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 9211
Registration: 16/01/10, 01:19
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by dedeleco » 25/01/11, 20:11

What does aerialcastor do in this galley ?? with :
He happens to be worse than Sir-Clandestino and that is a great feat, we must admit.


It must be said that it itches !!

I will refrain from putting on a diaper, even if it itches.

Quote:

I definitely leave all dialogue with you.

This is also what I decided following discussions on other sons.
I think this is the best reaction to have and I invite everyone to do the same.


And yet I did not speak of a frozen engine fossil during the last great ice age 20000 years ago.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/01/s ... t-ice-age/
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aerialcastor
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 865
Registration: 10/05/09, 16:39
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by aerialcastor » 25/01/11, 20:22

I was not talking to you, but other participants in the discussion ...
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Save a tree, eat a beaver.

It is no use to succeed in life, what it takes is to miss his death.

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