Prohibition of electric heating!

Oil, gas, coal, nuclear (PWR, EPR, hot fusion, ITER), gas and coal thermal power plants, cogeneration, tri-generation. Peakoil, depletion, economics, technologies and geopolitical strategies. Prices, pollution, economic and social costs ...
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 11/09/10, 19:01

This is econology: use local resources!
Wood is very widespread, it grows easily where thermal solar is not profitable. In well-controlled local production, transport is negligible.

By cons oil, for him you do not count the transport! : Mrgreen: Image

renaud67 wrote:Everyone sees noon at his door : Cheesy:


... I see, necessarily ... in Marseille! : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: and you heat yourself with pastaga

Image : Mrgreen: : Cheesy: :P
Last edited by Obamot the 11 / 09 / 10, 19: 08, 1 edited once.
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oiseautempete
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by oiseautempete » 11/09/10, 19:07

Obamot wrote:What bad faith, yours? Where is your lack of insight?


- that even if the price is attractive, it does not change the equation of the poor efficiency of the electricity for heating (which still remains as bad: 3 to 5 kWh consumed, for only 1 kWh of effective heat, in the best case)

If you think the electric is for now "the miracle solution"! You screw your finger in the eye to the scapula, and yet it is these arguments that you would judge as being supposedly "in bad faith!"


And it continues ..., I have never put the primary choice electricity in heating forward, but only defended the existing installations in a context of good insulation, you change the subject or reinvent new ones like that you arrange history of contradicting me systematically with fallacious arguments or out of context ... moreover your figures are ridiculous ... the energy / heat efficiency of electric radiators is almost 1 to 1 and not 1 to 3 to 5 ... values ​​which are not even reached if we count all intermediate losses in production / transport and processing ...
And you are talking about wood when all the forests of France would not be enough (in addition to lumber and for paper) if everyone used it to heat themselves ... not to mention that firewood is necessary oil to produce it (hey yes!)
And as you seem Swiss (Geneva ...), you should also intervene with your government so that it stops buying French nuclear electricity because it encourages the development of the atom ...
And finally, if we did my overall energy balance and yours you would have big surprises ... or see the straw in the eye of the neighbor and not the beam in his ...
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by Obamot » 11/09/10, 19:24

...and hop! You only pick up what suits you, and the rest of the arguments fall through the cracks ...! I answer you quickly and then I move on to something else.

Like the debate on 9/11 (and many others) you are definitely a kind of incapacitated! Unable to participate in a discussion in a forum apart from a binary clash. Unable to answer your interlocutors by taking into account all their arguments fairly. Unable to weigh the pros and cons, without irreversibly wanting absolutely to make YOUR argument triumph by all means. Unable to control you in fact ... Or you play troll.

oiseautempete wrote:
Obamot wrote:What bad faith, yours? Where is your lack of insight?
And it continues ..., I have never put the primary choice electricity in heating forward, but only defended the existing installations in a context of good insulation, you change the subject or reinvent new ones like that you arrange history of contradicting me systematically with fallacious arguments or out of context ... more your figures are ridiculous ... the energy / heat efficiency of electric radiators is almost 1 to 1 and not 1 to 3 to 5... values ​​which are not even reached if all intermediate losses in production / transport and processing are taken into account ...

Except that there at least we are sure that you are in bad faith, since we realize that you have picked up the info. : Mrgreen: With such an answer, it would be zero pointed to fac ..

oiseautempete wrote:And you are talking about wood when all the forests of France would not be enough (in addition to lumber and paper) if everyone used it to heat themselves ...

What a donkey you are! And the CGAAER report?

The share of wood heating with the pelt feeder does not reach 5% in Switzerland ... a land of forests! There is no "tin chore" with the pellets, these are directly conveyed from the truck to the tank located upstream of the furnace, by compressed air ...

Ministry of Food, Agriculture and Fisheries wrote:Forest and wood foundations

"the CGAAER report recently submitted to the Minister of Agriculture on the issue of underexploitation of the forest. He thus proceeded to a retrospective presentation of the volumes of timber sold, compared to the annual forest production: there appears to be a chronic under-exploitation of the French forest [...] There are many reasons for this: accessibility of massifs, size and fragmentation of private forest property, heterogeneity of stands, insufficient incentive forest regulations ... "


And it's the same everywhere else! The forests of Europe as far beyond the Urals and as far as Siberia, are TOTALLY UNDER-EXPLOITED, all experts agree to recognize it! If they had been correctly expolled, those which burned in Russia (a million hectares) in Ukraine, Greece, France, Spain, Portugal and even in Switzerland, should not have gone up in smoke in the same way! And to think that the gigantic mass of wood that burned could have been used to heat us! Putin has even been singled out for having reduced the personnel responsible for maintaining the forests (at the time when he was President), when they constitute a gigantic deposit and that they deserve to be dealt with finally in a correct proportion.

So point of view spurious arguments, I see only yours: because between saying that "that would not be enough to cover the needs" and chronic under-exploitation ..... There is room, that precisely which consists in encouraging this type of energy until reaching the suitable threshold ...
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by dedeleco » 12/09/10, 00:22

oiseautyphon sets off a cyclone at obamot !!
It must be said that it reveals a surly and jealous mentality against
big bucks that can afford to have second homes ... nothing to do with these people ...

https://www.econologie.com/forums/post177029.html#177029

Given the amount of wood and plants I see thrown everywhere, burnt in the air without recovering anything, from north to south of France, French forests can provide the necessary wood heating !!
The pellets are quite expensive, while the free vegetable waste, logs and the much cheaper wood chips are to be burned first.
What slows is the excessive price of automatic stoves with chips or shredded wood, free.
This cheap automatic stove with inserts deserves to be developed because it is unique and innovative: (tap on combustible stove)
http://www.energie-bois-sud.com/
http://nrjboisud.over-blog.com/

Finally, the technology for recovering the heat of summer stored underground in winter already produced in Canada and Germany is the future, because there is no need for fossil energy to heat !!
The summer sun is enough !!
We should make mandatory, for new residences, either wood or this revolutionary type of heating that works in Canada at 1084m above sea level and further north!
Location: Okotoks, Alberta. 51.1 deg N, 114 deg W, 1084 m elevation
Weather: Winter -33 C; Summer 28.3 C
much colder, further north, higher, thankless conditions and it works !!!

http://www.dlsc.ca/borehole.htm
http://www.dlsc.ca/DLSC_Brochure_f.pdf
http://www.dlsc.ca/how.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_thermal_store
Also in Germany:
http://intraweb.stockton.edu/eyos/energ ... S/6B-2.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage

Peremptory claims that there is nothing we can do without nuclear power or petroleum are pure manipulative lies !!!
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by Obamot » 12/09/10, 03:27

... how he got blown away ...! : Mrgreen:

... I wonder how he resolves his abysmal internal conflict in the 9/11 file, which in a way leads him to defend tooth and nail the interests of these ...

big lots of money that can afford to have second homes ...


...curious :?
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oiseautempete
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by oiseautempete » 12/09/10, 09:29

Obamot wrote:... how he got blown away ...! : Mrgreen:

... I wonder how he resolves his abysmal internal conflict in the 9/11 file, which in a way leads him to defend tooth and nail the interests of these ...

big lots of money that can afford to have second homes ...


...curious :?


To blow my nose, certainly not, because in reality no of your arguments does not hold water, but I have no time to waste with obtuse people and will not have fun dismantling your fallacious arguments ... errare humanum est, perseverare diabolicum ... you should meditate on this ... : Cheesy:
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by jlt22 » 25/11/10, 15:12

Electric heating will calm some of them soon:

ENERGY - Prices should increase for individuals ...

The deputies definitively adopted on Wednesday evening the NOME law which reformed the electricity market. But one of the direct consequences could be a rise in prices for individuals. 20minutes.fr returns to the challenges of the text.

Why did the government want to reform the electricity market?

Transposition of a European directive, the text plans to reorganize the relations between the historic supplier, EDF, and its competitors like GDF Suez, Poweo or Direct Energie.

Currently, EDF is the only one to have its nuclear fleet for low production costs. A situation contrary to European competition law and which penalizes new suppliers.

What will the reform change for electricity suppliers?

The text provides that EDF will have to transfer up to 25% of the production of its nuclear electricity to its competitors.

However, the law does not specify the sale price. The government and then the Energy Regulatory Commission (CRE) will be responsible for setting this tariff, which could be largely in favor of EDF.

After multiple negotiations, the public group should be able to sell its electricity at a price higher than its production costs and thus be able to make the investments necessary for the renovation and maintenance of its nuclear fleet.

Why is the bill for individuals likely to increase?

Regulated prices for individuals will still exist while they will disappear for large companies at the end of 2015. But the bill could well increase. The UFC-Que Choisir denounced last Thursday in a press release a bill "diverted from its original objective by hand-sewn amendments for EDF".

As the sale price of its nuclear production should be above its production costs and the current level integrated into the regulated tariffs, the latter will automatically explode for consumer associations.

"The increase in the electricity bill will, depending on the level selected, from 7% to 11% from the implementation of the law and from 21% to 28% by 2015," said the press release.

Elsa Meyer


source:
http://www.20minutes.fr/article/628669/economie-marche-electricite-tout-comprendre-reforme-marche#xtor=RSS-145
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by hic » 25/11/10, 19:10

Obamot wrote:

Another paradox, it will be necessary to find other means in the future, because all the houses will not be "passive" within fifty years ... when one will leave the "all oil" for the electricity of Désertec.

How will we heat then?


We won't heat anymore

super-insulators that will spray standards

- by combining vacuum nanobubbles in the insulators
(replacing air)

Today is already tomorrow!

***
Vacuum insulation panels (PIV) incorporating new high performance thermal insulation materials, such as micro and nanoporous materials, have been recently developed.
***
** www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/eng/projects/irc/syst ... ation.html **
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"Let food be thy medicine and thy medicine be thy food" Hippocrates
"Everything has a price has no value" Nietzche
Torture for Dummies
Forbid to express the idea that the field is acceleration (magnetic and gravitational)
And you get your patent mental torture option executioner successfully
dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 25/11/10, 20:07

Another paradox, it will be necessary to find other means in the future, because all the houses will not be "passive" within fifty years ... when one will leave the "all oil" for the electricity of Désertec.

How will we heat then? [

even without expensive high-performance insulation with a short lifespan such as a vacuum, to stuff into the house, by redoing all the interior walls, we receive thermal solar energy per m2 per mXNUMX on the roof of the house and its appendages which allows it to be stored in the ground to recover it in winter and it works et I am terrified that this effective solution is systematically stifled for such expensive, hyper-centralized systems such as nuclear and desertec with electricity transport over thousands of km !!
http://www.dlsc.ca/borehole.htm
It's decentralized, at the level of some 50 pavilions already functional and we can improve it with some inexpensive technical research compared to an EPR or Desertec. .
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by chatelot16 » 25/11/10, 20:42

these empty stories make me laugh! there is no need for new insulating materials, pure vacuum is enough

it takes 2 waterproof walls ... the problem begins: it works very well with glass: thermos ... it already works less well with steel, never perfectly waterproof: stainless steel dewars for liquid nitrogen lose their vacuum enough quickly

when i see vacuum panels with plastic envelope it makes me laugh

however the vacuum could be a good insulation system, but with a vacuum pump outlet ... without the possibility of maintaining the vacuum it is a scam
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