JP Petit

[~ Jean-Marc ~]

Good evening everyone,

Here is one more page (in French) on the subject with a summary of an assembly on a tractor and some hypotheses on the operation.

http://www.jp-petit.com/

@+

~ Jean-Marc ~

[Christophe]

I am honored that my name is mentioned on the site of JP Petit, it does not prevent a link to econology would have done ... better;)

[Christophe]

I find the article quite confusing ... we quickly get lost between different concepts not necessarily related to the injection of water ... Here are the passages that I "chose":

"CP, post-combustion, consists of continuing combustion outside the combustion chambers by injecting kerosene again into the burnt gases. But that's when we use a catalyst which is simply ... Post combustion is done with water injection (&&& question, what is the mass of water loaded by a Mirage III to power its PC?).

When I was twelve years old, during a visit to the Paris air show at the time, at the Grand Palais I asked an American presenter what water was used in post systems combustion, of a fairly recent introduction. He replied that this would break down hydrocarbon molecules and improve combustion. (&&& Here again, welcome details on what we know about the mechanism of post-combustion. Percentages of unburnt, with and without water injection, etc.). "

"As far as I know, the energy released comes only from the combustion of kerosene and not from this ... water which, moreover having the possibility of being electrically charged, plays a catalytic role. (&& other questions to passage, to the engine manufacturers: how does the water actually act in these post combustion. Is there electrification of the medium? Does the water play a role simply because of the dipolar nature of its molecule ? )"

"These opposite flows cause a separation of the electric charges, generating very strong electric fields. In a cloud the breakdown occurs when the field is between 100.000 volts per meter and one megavolt per meter. The storm cloud therefore transforms into dynamic capacitor. The charge separation is maintained by the upward movement. The only way to "discharge this capacitor" is to ground it, ie "to the ground". To do this you need a conductive line and it is formed in the form of an electric arc. It is lightning. There is breakdown, disruption, creation of a thin very strongly ionized channel, heated by Joule effect. This heating is so intense that the sudden expansion said channel gives rise to a shock wave which is called thunder. There is visible lightning, external to the cloud, but the whole of the cloud-condenser is traversed by mini-arcs which endeavor to restore its n electrical eutrality, partially, since the same cloud can operate repeatedly. The upward movement of moist air recharges the capacitor, etc. It is a multi-stroke capacitor, which stops working when the upward movement of the air subsides.

I wonder if this "Pantone reactor" does not work on the diagram, with electrification of this mist of air and water droplets sent downstream of the carburetor. If this were the case, the electric field created would have a very effective effect on combustion, playing a catalytic role. This would explain the very significant drop in pollution. Normal: we burn more fuel.

In my opinion (but I can be wrong) the remarkable efficiency of the "Pantone engine" would come from the fact that it would implement an extremely clever electrodynamic catalysis. We could call it more adequately:

Electrodynamic catalysis system "

"I think this idea of ​​using a mist of water vapor as a catalyst, possibly with electrification, is interesting and could have industrial applications clearly going beyond the lawn mower, the tractor, the resuscitation of a vehicle outside Despite evidence of reduced consumption and pollution, what has attracted some suspicion about the "Pantone reactor" (the name is not well chosen) is the myth that water "."

"If there is electrification we can wonder if this will not create nitrogen oxides, therefore generate new pollution. We will note in passing that nitrogen oxide NO is the molecule which, in the air , has the lowest ionization potential, most easily gives free electrons where, conversely, NO + ions, but the pollutant is NO2 which, mixed with water gives nitric acid NO3H ("acid rain").

All this is to be considered, measured, quantified, which does not have to be very complicated. some handymen have made measurements of voltages and obtained values ​​and amperages. But without error they were "transverse" tensions, in directions perpendicular to the axis of the "reactor". This is the axial field that we would like to know. But beware: measurement of DDP in a two-phase fluid or a plasma, if there is plasma is not without pitfalls. Beware of the "screen effect" (spherical shielding). We can make simple measurements of electrical conductivity, change materials for coaxial tubes.

It is specified that the circulation of burnt gases must be in the opposite direction to that of the water mist. This would militate in the direction of an electrification of the medium not of a simple thermal transfer, which would then be independent of the direction of flow of the gas. "

[m136044]

"CP, post-combustion, consists of continuing combustion outside the combustion chambers by injecting kerosene again into the burnt gases. But that's when we use a catalyst which is simply ... Post combustion is done with water injection (&&& question, what is the mass of water loaded by a Mirage III to power its PC?).

We have already talked at length about the injection of water on turbomachinery in aeronautics on the forum PMC FRANCE from YAHOO, I will be brief:
The increased yields of recent generation turbomachines and refractory alloys have contributed to the abandonment of water injection.

There were two types of water injection:

The injection into an upper stage of the HP compressor which had the effect of increasing the gaseous mass entering the combustion chambers and thus "deceived" the fuel regulator (Fuel Control Unit) which thus increased the mass of fuel injected QC. The cooling effect of the NGV and the HP turbine was only incidental. A B747-100 equipped with Pratt & Wittney JT9 consumed approximately 500 Kg of demineralized water per engine on takeoff, the unused on-board quantity was immediately drained so as not to deteriorate the circuits by freezing and not to transport an unnecessary load.

The water-methanol injection directly into the combustion chambers brought an energy increase (by methanol) + water cooling. - RR DART turboprop on Fokker 27 / Bréguet Alizé - The water on board could be kept for another takeoff.

In both cases the water injection was not used systematically but only in the case of a short track or a high load.


Post-combustion has absolutely nothing to do with either water injection or the cathalysers. It is only used on turbojet engines. We “burn” at the back of the fuel turbine, the combustion of which is managed by a regulator which controls the fuel flow and the pressure in the nozzle by controlling flaps (eyelids or shells) at the back of the latter. It is this relaxation that provides additional boost at the cost of exponential consumption.
The only civilian engine to have been equipped with Post-combustion was the RR Olympus - SECMA (Concorde). It was an all or nothing / takeoff PC unlike most military engines which have a modular thrust usable in all phases of flight.
PC operating times are tracked in seconds.

Question, what is the mass of water carried by a Mirage III (ATAR 9B or 9C SECMA engine) to power its PC? ..... 0 Kg!!!

Kind regards.

[Misterloxo]

It’s a masterful lesson you’re giving us here

Hope to read you again on forum