The sea, many projects in progress

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
C moa
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The sea, many projects in progress




by C moa » 15/10/08, 09:09

Sorry, I only have a sound document but obviously a lot of projects are underway and are ready to be launched and here we can talk about mass production with ENR !!!
http://www.rtl.fr/fiche/2147786/l-ocean-va-t-il-remplacer-le-petrole.html
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by Christophe » 15/10/08, 09:58

Not listened did they talk about ETM and micro algae (most of which are not saline but let's move on ...)? https://www.econologie.com/forums/energie-th ... t4853.html

Because I see very badly how offshore wind turbines, tidal turbines or wave generators (I don't remember the name anymore) can hope to replace ... oil ...

The title is good "Will the ocean replace oil?"
Last edited by Christophe the 15 / 10 / 08, 10: 03, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 15/10/08, 10:02

Ah finally it's fast, 1min31 so I listened, and sorry but it's a bit of intoxication ...

What does PETROLEUM do in electricity generation?
The profitability of tidal turbines is even more dependent on nuclear power than wind power since we are far from having the technological experience of wind power ...

Only in oil producing countries do we produce electricity with petroleum ...
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by C moa » 15/10/08, 12:14

Christophe wrote:What does PETROLEUM do in electricity generation?
Me neither I did not understand their title but that does not detract from the content.
The profitability of tidal turbines is even more dependent on nuclear power than wind power since we are far from having the technological experience of wind power ...
I don't see what you're relying on to say that : Shock: . For me the main differences between wind and tidal are as follows:
- Sea currents have been known since kalakal and are stable, especially when it is a current offshore, at depth;
- Based on this principle, you know your production capacity precisely for the whole year so when you size and install your turbine, you are able to 90% predict your cost and make the most of your installation;
- The use of a tidal turbine makes it possible to create preservation zones for the marine environment because these are areas prohibited to fishing. Generally, very quickly the fish understand it and come to reproduce there quietly;
- It is completely invisible, it does not interfere with any surface activity.
Only in oil producing countries do we produce electricity with petroleum ...
You forget (voluntarily ??) installations with coal, fuel oil and gas .... Certainly it is not strictly speaking petroleum but it remains carbonaceous products !!!
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by Christophe » 15/10/08, 12:28

Yes a tidal turbine is much less worse than a wind turbine in the regularity: we agree and its annual productivity is better .... its financial profitability I am not sure (because there is only that which counts no?)

In France, given its Atlantic coast, the tidal potential is very important but limited (1 nuclear reactor according to RTL but at what cost?) Nevertheless compared to other technologies!

In addition, the technology is new and the profitability of tidal turbines is, exactly like for wind turbines, dependent on the willingness of Edf to buy the current ... at a certain price.

Find me a (industrial) wind turbine that would be built at 0.12 € per kWh ...

Finally, how much does a kW turbine cost, including wiring to the network? What about a kWh tidal turbine? We can't even answer precisely because we probably don't have enough perspective now!

You should know that everything offshore is much more expensive (the € 500 bed of an oil platform!) ... even if it is "near offshore" ...

https://www.econologie.com/hydroliennes- ... s-988.html
https://www.econologie.com/les-hydrolien ... s-977.html

All that to say that I think that once again we are looking for the wrong one directly. I think there is clearly another priority in energy research at sea than tidal turbines: ETM and micro algae (+ Laigret) in mind!

The global potential of ETM is 130% of current electricity consumption! How much for tidal turbines?

Réponse:

Its most enthusiastic promoters believe that the energy potential of waves and tides could ensure world consumption of electricity. The power of the tides has been evaluated more rigorously at 2,6 terawatts (1). Only a small percentage could be turned into energy.


ps: in petroleum electricity I counted fuel oil and heavy fuel oil of course .... coal has nothing to do with it since the title is oil! Unless journalists equate "oil" and "energy" which is ultimately not so false for specialists (in all senses) ... but for individuals not ...
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by C moa » 15/10/08, 20:07

Christophe wrote:Yes a tidal turbine is much less worse than a wind turbine in the regularity: we agree and its annual productivity is better .... its financial profitability I am not sure (because there is only that which counts no?)
I think we have to differentiate between operational profitability and investment / return on investment. Let us remember that the nuclear industry was helped by the state because the investments were very important. That EDF helps during the investment / return on investment phase is not shocking in itself, what is important is that once this phase is over, the installation is profitable. Unlike wind, these equipments have a great availability so if the project is well thought out, it must be profitable in the long term which is not the case of wind turbines.
In France, given its Atlantic coast, the tidal potential is very important but limited (1 nuclear reactor according to RTL but at what cost?) Nevertheless compared to other technologies!
RTL does not say that we can only produce the equivalent of a reactor, they say that this is what should be installed in 2020, ie tomorrow !!! As I said before, there is no more economical energy than that which is not consumed and in France, I think that we can relatively easily remove 10% of our slices through savings of energy (for that it may not be necessary to go all the way to 100% electric vehicles. Strangely we don't hear too much out of nuclear power and so on : Lol: ). If we add the tidal wave, it starts to be pretty good I think.

In addition, the technology is new and the profitability of tidal turbines is, exactly like for wind turbines, dependent on the willingness of Edf to buy the current ... at a certain price.
Find me a (industrial) wind turbine that would be built at 0.12 € per kWh ...
Finally, how much does a kW turbine cost, including wiring to the network? What about a kWh tidal turbine? We can't even answer precisely because we probably don't have enough perspective now!
For wind turbines, there is none for sure. For the tidal stream, I don't know the business plans for these projects but I ask to see ...
You should know that everything offshore is much more expensive (the € 500 bed of an oil platform!) ... even if it is "near offshore" ...
Yes of course it's more complicated than a site that you can cross by bike, but hey, these aren't platforms or FPSOs either! Here we are not talking about inhabited sites, we are not talking about drilling and very important subsequent operations or flammable and / or explosive products with all that this involves constraints and especially these are sites that are planned to last longer. 20 years at constant flows (40 years for La Rance). Being very schematic, it is necessary "simply" to install an apron with two turbines and a cable.
All that to say that I think that once again we are looking for the wrong one directly. I think there is clearly another priority in energy research at sea than tidal turbines: ETM and micro algae (+ Laigret) in mind!
Let's compare what is comparable (and forget the title of the article) because to produce electricity we can possibly use ETM (whose profitability will probably be close is tidal and other marine technologies) but micro-algae and laigret is not too suitable AMHA.

The global potential of ETM is 130% of current electricity consumption! How much for tidal turbines?
In the report, they say twice the current production. Personally I am wary of these big figures (ditto for the ETM) because between the potential and the realized, there is a huge gap. Let's face it, the day we have 2% of electricity produced thanks to the ETM or the Hydroelectric it will be thanks to lobbies which will be at least as powerful as Areva or TOTAL (TOTALS ?? :? )

[HS MODE ON] Do you have contacts with companies that market micro-algae ?? [HS MODE OFF]
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by Gregconstruct » 15/10/08, 20:37

Have you never heard of disturbances in sea currents?

The Gulf Stream could even stop! On the other hand, there is little chance that the wind will stop blowing!
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by ortie458b » 20/10/08, 13:57

The sea is a renewable energy source that we would have had to exploit long ago if we had put the necessary means.

When we think of the billion that are easily found elsewhere (bank rescue, ITR, ...) it is not normal that we could not be invested in research to exploit the energy of the sea
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by Christophe » 20/10/08, 14:08

ortie458b wrote:When we think of the billion that are easily found elsewhere (bank rescue, ITR, ...) it is not normal that we could not be invested in research to exploit the energy of the sea


Toutafé, in the future governments will not more right to say: it costs too much we don't have "money" ...

Everything is a question of "capitalistic" priority: by saving the banks we save the richest. By investing in renewable energies, we are killing the richest (since an renewable energy makes it possible to achieve less commercial margins).

This is nothing communist: it's just common sense ...
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by Gregconstruct » 20/10/08, 19:12

Christophe wrote: we fuck the richest


Don't forget the hood ... : Mrgreen:
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