The renewable energy hydrogen car: the future?

[moinsdewatt]

..... so for me the solution for the future is synthetic fuel! use renewable energy AND fossil or renewable carbon to make liquid fuel that will gradually replace oil

see the AUDI e-gas project http://www.oleocene.org/phpBB3/viewtopi ... 35#p367035

[I Citro]

The fact that car manufacturers are trying to rake wide does not detract from the poor performance of this storage system compared to current batteries ...

Manufacturers are striving to find loopholes to cling against the heat engine, whether it is rational or not, in terms of performance, compared to the paradigm shift represented by the electric vehicle.

[moinsdewatt]

The fact that car manufacturers are trying to rake wide does not detract from the poor performance of this storage system compared to current batteries ...

Manufacturers are striving to find loopholes to cling against the heat engine, whether it is rational or not, in terms of performance, compared to the paradigm shift represented by the electric vehicle.

The electric vehicle will be a paradigm shift when the range is 500 km.

For the moment there is hardly any Tesla to do that, but at the cost of a very large mass of vehicle and a significant purchase cost.

[chatelot16]

engine performance is not the goal of a vehicle!

when you want a heavy battery to have 500km of autonomy the battery is heavier than the payload: we increase the energy consumption to carry this battery: a too heavy battery increases the consumption as much as the low efficiency of the heat engine

so you have to choose the right vehicle for what you want!

the electric only seems good to me for users who need a short autonomy .... for those who need long autonomy the heat engine will remain the right solution for a long time

in my case it is infrequent use of the vehicle, therefore impossible to make a battery ... and when the vehicle is used it is sometimes to make long distance

we can dream of an electric system with interchangeable battery available in service stations, but if it still does not exist I think it is because the amortization and maintenance of these batteries would be too expensive for this service either sold at a reasonable price

[I Citro]

The electric vehicle will be a paradigm shift when the range is 500 km.

At the moment there is little that the Tesla to do that ...

The electric vehicle is already a paradigm shift.
All households that have several vehicles, one of which is used only for daily commuting / work trips that do not exceed the range of an electric vehicle are compatible with this paradigm shift, and I am not talking about the very many owners of car without a license which has a parking space with power outlet (in the garage, the garden ...) and who will never consider leaving 500 km away, or even 250 km away.

TESLA is not the only electric vehicle capable of covering more than 500 km during the day and all daily journeys of around 100 km in XNUMX% electric ...
There is the OPEL Ampéra, the MITSUBISHI Outlander PHEV, the BMW i3 REX, the Golf GTE and many other models currently on the market or to come in the coming months in the PHEV category or Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicle (hybrid electric vehicle). rechargeable).

@chatelot16, Engine efficiency is the primary objective of a vehicle with emission standards and range targets for electric vehicles.

For example, the transition from 80% to more than 95% efficiency on electric motors saves precious km of autonomy without changing battery technology.

[chatelot16]

the efficiency of the electric motor is close to 100% but how do you calculate the weight of the battery? when the battery weight doubles the vehicle weight compared to a small diesel it doubles the energy consumption, as if the vehicle remained light but had an engine efficiency divided by 2

another defect of the battery, its energy lost to keep it charged even when it is not used

this loss by self-discharge is negligible for those who drive every day, but for me who leaves my gear unused for weeks or months, keeping it in charge of an electric vehicle would be a big loss: the electric is not a good solution to everybody

for a good ecological efficiency you have to use the vehicle adapted to what you have to do so have several vehicles which do not eat anything when they are not used ... some speak of rental, but it is ruinous, I prefer to have old used machine that I know how to maintain at the lowest cost

for short trips I use a 50cm3 4-stroke scooter which consumes 2litre / 100km: no electric vehicle could be as economical ... sometimes the scooter stays far from home in a place without electricity because I come home with a truck. .. I can go get it long after ... if it was an electric vehicle it would be flat!

the electric car is not for me

[I Citro]

The weight difference between an electric vehicle and a diesel is not that important. TESLA being a special case.

The e-Up, Zoé, Leaf are in the average of current cars.
A diesel engine, its exhaust, its tank are not light.

An electric motor, its simplified transmission, its electronics and its battery hold the comparison, to within 10%.
We are therefore far from doubling the weight or reducing the yield by 2.


The self-discharge of the batteries is also negligible on current models and unless they are stored completely discharged, they do not fear several months of non-use.

The only current electric car that suffers from self-discharge is Bolloré's Bluecar, because of its LMP batteries which are "lukewarm batteries" and must be kept at temperature.
Apart from the performance aspect, self-discharge is not a problem on this car-sharing car which is reconnected to its socket each time we leave the car to stop the rental. If the car is not reconnected, the rental billing continues ...

Ditto for the scooter if it uses current battery technologies. I add that some scooters have removable batteries which allow to completely overcome the fears of self-discharge. The consumption of an electric scooter is around half a liter per 100km (50Wh / km).

I understand that you are not receptive to the arguments of the electric car. You are trying to persuade yourself that it does not work and it will. It is perfectly counterproductive to entrust electric vehicles to people who want them for no reason. Experience has shown in the past that electric vehicles which have been imposed (in local communities or businesses) on users who did not want them have ended in failure, the users in question massacring the vehicles for break down.

Conversely, by offering electric vehicles on a voluntary basis, the curious who volunteered mostly adopted them with enthusiasm and satisfaction.

I switched to this mode of travel because it was theoretically superior to the thermal vehicle, while fearing "that it is not for me". In fact it is the lady who decided to have an EV because I didn't dare. A month after its purchase I was going out of my way to get mine ... And yet our venerable Peugeot 106s are far from flawless.

[chatelot16]

we see on your table of reasonable weights because it is autonomy of the order of 150 km ... it is when we want an autonomy of 500km that the battery weight becomes equivalent to a drop in efficiency

I have nothing against electric cars ... I just say that it does not suit my current needs ... so leave them to those to whom it suits

[moinsdewatt]

Are fuel cells environmentally friendly? Not always !

July 30, 2015 enerzine

Fuel cells are believed to be the technology of the future for cars, but also for domestic heaters. They thus occupy a key position for the transition to renewable energies. But are fuel cells anyway more environmentally friendly?

An international team of scientists led by Empa calculated their eco-balance sheet and came to the conclusion: it all depends on the fuel.

In the future we could drive fuel cell cars that use hydrogen produced with solar energy. The “zero emissions” car would then have become a reality. At the same time, we could find in the basements of our homes small cogeneration plants also using fuel cell technology to transform natural gas and biogas into electricity and still produce heat "by the way" for heating the building. But is what is technically feasible also environmentally sound? Empa researcher Dominic Notter set to work with colleagues from Greece and Brazil to calculate the eco-balance of fuel cells: from manufacturing and over their entire life cycle, with their operation and up to 'to their final recycling.

The decisive point: the way electricity is produced

The result is clear: the use of fuel cells on cars is only environmentally sound if they use hydrogen produced from renewable energy sources. It makes no sense to plug into the European electricity distribution network to produce hydrogen by electrolysis of water and use it to refuel these cars. With this method, the CO2 emissions per kilowatt hour are much too high. Currently industrial hydrogen is mainly produced directly from natural gas. But with this type of production too, the fuel cell brings practically no ecological advantage. Cars with internal combustion engines are still racing ahead: their production is less polluting.

In ecological comparison with electric cars too, fuel cell cars currently have no chance: first of all, it is necessary to produce hydrogen with electricity. This hydrogen is then used on the car to generate electricity again. This double transformation clearly reduces energy efficiency. Those who use this same current directly to charge the battery of their electric car drive more economically and more ecologically.

However, it may be different in the future, according to Notter. From the moment when electricity is produced mainly from solar, wind or hydraulic energy, the fuel cell car will become competitive - this because its manufacture consumes less resources, than its range of action is more extensive and it takes less time to refuel.
..................

http://www.enerzine.com/14/18577+les-pi ... ours+.html

[Macro]

One could also simply and less dangerously use ethannol in fuel cells ...

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pile_%C3% ... nol_direct