The renewable energy hydrogen car: the future?

Transport and new transport: energy, pollution, engine innovations, concept car, hybrid vehicles, prototypes, pollution control, emission standards, tax. not individual transport modes: transport, organization, carsharing or carpooling. Transport without or with less oil.
Leo Maximus
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by Leo Maximus » 30/04/12, 17:09

dedeleco wrote:... The future is not predictable, like major technological advances ....

Beautiful words of deleco!

It would be fun to make a list of irrelevant "stuff" that later became major technological advancements.
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by dedeleco » 30/04/12, 19:55

It would be fun to make a list of great "stuff" that eventually became unused technological advancements. .
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by Leo Maximus » 30/04/12, 20:03

dedeleco wrote:
It would be fun to make a list of great "stuff" that eventually became unused technological advancements. .

Yes too. And try to understand why.
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by dedeleco » 30/04/12, 21:43

And try to understand why.

simply, because we cannot know everything before, like the difficulties poorly estimated, and therefore we cannot foresee the future, scientific and technological, clearly visible with Jules Vernes, yet fairly fair.

The electric car has been waiting for 112 years, which was not foreseeable in 1900, for this immense difficulty of making batteries, as well as petrol.
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by chatelot16 » 30/04/12, 23:34

the electric car was quite good in 1899, at that time the petrol car was zero and the steam cars still had their place ... since the petrol car has progressed so much that the electric car has trouble coming back

but the more the price of oil goes up the more the electric car will take its place

what does the fuel cell do in the middle? with the current prices less interesting than the batteries

some large manufacturers can still communicate with hydrogen cars ... they are not really sold, no one knows the real price

my opinion will change when i have a real fuel cell at home and it will work for thousands of hours instead of another generator
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by Fakir » 02/05/12, 22:04

This link presents an H² car and its mode of operation.
http://www.automobile-propre.com/2012/0 ... hydrogene/

I find the video nice!


A statement by Toyota on an H² car in 2015 at € 35
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/hydrogen-ca ... -6733.html


and a situation on cars with PAC:
http://www.automobile-propre.com/2011/0 ... des-lieux/
Extract
the engineer responsible for the engines of the future at Toyota, a certain Justin Ward, said in an interview with Ward's Auto that the cost of manufacturing Toyota's PAC car had dropped from $ 1 million a few years ago to $ 129 (000 million Yen) today. Asked about its probable cost in 1, he refused to confirm the price of $ 2015 that some announced for the PAC cars planned for that year.
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by moinsdewatt » 06/10/12, 11:33

Air Liquide opens its first consumer hydrogen station in Germany

10 Sept 2012 Enerzine

While the automotive sector has announced the sale of vehicles powered by fuel cells by 2015, the manufacturer Air Liquide intends to contribute to the emergence of hydrogen in the transport sector by supporting the deployment distribution infrastructure.

The French group announced last Friday that it officially opened its first hydrogen distribution station accessible to the general public for passenger cars in Germany, in the city of Düsseldorf.

And that's just the beginning ! 10 new hydrogen distribution stations will be designed, built and deployed over the next three years, added Air Liquide, as part of a large-scale demonstration project led by the German government. By 2015, Germany will have a supply network of at least 50 public hydrogen stations.

These developments are in line with the Group's announcement made in October 2011 relating to investment in 20 new stations in Europe.

In addition, Air Liquide recently installed two other stations: "one in Oslo, Norway, and one in Switzerland, in the city of Brugg."

In Japan, the government sees hydrogen as a major and promising source of energy for the future of the automobile and plans to install around 100 hydrogen filling stations for fuel cell vehicles by 2015. Air Liquide Japan should therefore ensure the construction of a large number of these stations and, in this perspective, has recently set up a specialized team dedicated to the hydrogen market. The Group has already installed 3 hydrogen stations to date, in Tokyo, Kawasaki and Saga. According to Air Liquide, one of these stations has demonstrated the feasibility of a complete chain of "blue hydrogen" from wood chips allowing "clean mobility".



“Air Liquide is proud to support these government initiatives. These new developments illustrate the Group's commitment to participate in the deployment of hydrogen energy infrastructure around the world. Hydrogen is one of the innovative solutions that contribute to the preservation of the environment by providing a short-term response to the challenges posed by sustainable mobility: reduction of greenhouse gases, pollution of cities and dependence on hydrocarbons ”declared François Darchis, Director of the Company and member of the Executive Committee of Air Liquide.

To date, around 60 hydrogen distribution stations have been designed and delivered by Air Liquide worldwide.



http://www.enerzine.com/14/14375+air-li ... agne+.html
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by moinsdewatt » 26/07/15, 12:52

Toyota Mirai, world sobriety champion

Service stations don't say thank you
The Toyota Mirai is a car powered by hydrogen (fuel cell) which produces only water vapor, and therefore zero CO2 emissions. It is also a road camel.

Toyota-Mirai-USA-WEB.jpg (Toyota photo credits)

During the last Aspen Ideas Festival, in the famous eponymous ski resort located in Colorado, the Toyota Mirai, fuel cell vehicle, was the focus, due to its next marketing this fall in California. Toyota USA President Jim Lentz took the opportunity to make a comparison with a car with an internal combustion engine. On a mixed route (highway / city), the Mirai consumes the equivalent of 3,50 liters of petrol per 100 kilometers. With a full tank of hydrogen (two tanks with a total capacity of 5 kg of compressed fuel), the Mirai is capable of covering approximately 502 kilometers. Performance equivalent to thermal cars, but all without polluting, and even producing electricity via the fuel cell. Californians, world champions of ecology, will appreciate it.

For Jim Lentz, "the Mirai is now ready to enter a new era of hydrogen-based transportation, just like the Prius Hybrid was 20 years ago (…)."

In California in particular, the Toyota Mirai will be marketed from 57 US dollars (500 euros) with the possibility of benefiting from an ecological bonus of 51 dollars (910 euros).

There remains a major unknown, the price of hydrogen. Last August at an auto conference hosted by JP Morgan in New York, Bob USA, vice president of Toyota USA said that the Department of Energy estimated that a full tank of hydrogen would cost approximately 50 dollars (45 euros) to fall thereafter to 30 dollars (27 euros). In comparison, an American driving with a thermal car spends 44,50 dollars (40 euros) to make 480 kilometers while the owners of Toyota Prius pay only 21 dollars (19 euros) for the same distance. But the great champion any category remains the Tesla Model S with a full electricity at 9,60 dollars (8,64 euros). Certainly, the Tesla uses off-peak hours to arrive at such a low bill.

To attract future Mirai customers, Toyota offers a range of services, such as 3 years of fuel or the equivalent of $ 15, 000/24 customer service for 24 years, 7 days of rental per year. for 3 years, maintenance for 7 years or 3 km, roadside assistance for 3 years (without mileage restriction) as well as $ 55 / day (for a maximum of 000 days) in the event of a breakdown and finally a 3 year or 500 km warranty on all components and tanks linked to the operation of the fuel cell.


http://www.lesnumeriques.com/voiture/to ... 43617.html

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by I Citro » 27/07/15, 00:17

Yes, another article that shows that the hydrogen sector is far from being economically relevant ...

After lobbying to remove safety standards on the transport of hydrogen, which once had to be handled several hundred meters or even several kilometers from homes if the quantities exceeded one kilo ...

Now, manufacturers in the hydrogen sector are busy obtaining subsidies for this gas so that it is economically viable ...

Professionals have a hard time producing kg of hydrogen for less than € 15 and since it takes 1 kg to cover 100 km, this means that the hydrogen car costs as much as a car consuming 10 liters per 100 km of 1.50 fuel € ...

If we add to this, the considerable difficulty in deploying a real network of hydrogen stations and the reliability of the membranes of fuel cells on which no official information filters (some speak of 1000 hours of service before replacement, i.e. less than 30.000 km), we are far from being in the presence of an economically viable vehicle ...
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by chatelot16 » 27/07/15, 13:25

for me hydrogen is a bad solution ... if the goal is to run on renewable energy it is the electric car which is already currently profitable in the cases which are favorable to it

for the general case I prefer to have a car as simple as possible, light and versatile: not to put complexity in the vehicle but in the gas plant which manufactures petrol or diesel

so for me the solution for the future is synthetic fuel! use renewable energy AND fossil or renewable carbon to make liquid fuel that will gradually replace oil

pure hydrogen is not a good way to store and use renewable energy: with carbon in addition, it's easier: the thermal decomposition of water we still dream of to make pure hydrogen , but in the presence of carbon thermal decomposition has worked very well for a long time: it makes a mixture of CO and H2 good for making synthetic fuel
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