The renewable energy hydrogen car: the future?

[Bardal]

We will not replace these many cases of use with bicycles. It is the urbanism that must be rethought if we want to remove these mostly diesel cars that leave from 5h30 to avoid traffic jams.

Only if one considers the situation in a monolithic way.
The current system is based on energy mismanagement because of a guaranteed energy supply.
However, such situations can not be sustained for long and the scarcity should restore the balance.
Rethinking urban planning is simply not possible without such a prerequisite, so swim against the tide at the edge of Niagara Falls!

Bof ... The rarefaction is not for tomorrow ... It is not at all certain that I know it, and you either. Oil remains and especially gas for several decades (at least 5 or 6) and coal for several centuries. The issue of global warming will catch us well before fossil fuels are exhausted ... And it will remain nuclear, for the end of the centuries ...

I do not know if it is a mismanagement, what we are currently living, but it seems obvious to me that we will not return to walking or cycling in the 40-50 years; at most a few sores, on sunny days, and for unimportant distances.

The only future that I see credible, at least for the next few decades, is the use of energy that drastically limits climate impacts and a way of life that stops the demographic and economic runaway that we are experiencing; the task is already huge.

[sen-no-sen]

Bof ... The rarefaction is not for tomorrow ... It is not at all certain that I know it, and you either. Oil remains and especially gas for several decades (at least 5 or 6) and coal for several centuries. The issue of global warming will catch us well before fossil fuels are exhausted ... And it will remain nuclear, for the end of the centuries ...

The question of a collapse or a crumbling of our society does not only concern the available reserves, it remains to demonstrate that there would remain astronomical quantities of low-cost oils to exploit, something that seems to contravene all geological studies. In progress! If you have sources I'm interested*!
The economy is an interconnected system, and the issue must be viewed from different angles: geopolitical, energetic, demographic, sociological.
For example, the African continent should see its population increase by around 1,250 billion people by 2050 ... nearly a third of young Africans say they want to go to Europe ... and the phenomenon is already started (the famous "migrants").
The economic situation of the industrial countries (USA, Europe, Japan, China) is far from optimistic, to say the least, because without the injection of fictitious liquidity in our account, several countries would already be edges of the chasm ...

To think that one will be able to continue to live with each one's car is a very optimistic, if not naive (!) Vision of the coming future!
A growth curve extrapolation indicates that there would be nearly 4 billion car in the world in 2050, you really have to be crazy (or be an economist) to believe that such a situation will occur!


*It also remains to demonstrate the real possibility of continuing to exploit fossil resources while limiting global warming (!), Because the latest news CO2 burial in the ground is more of the pseudo-scoop for low-level journalist than an authentic technical solution!

[Bardal]

Indeed, it is probably the issue of global warming that will become the limiting factor, well before the energy shortage ... It is more than 30 years that we hear about the peak of Hubbert, which would already have to produce 2 or 3 times ...

Experience shows that the malice of man to push limits (which are not fixed by a physical law but by a pragmatic economist) is incommensurable; even in the United States, a so-called exhausted soil of all resources has regained its fertility, at least for a time ... And we are far from having evaluated what remains to be exploited by means that remain to be invented (how many Methane hydrates to be recovered (please) ... And we are only there in the chemical energy, the energy of the atom opens other perspectives, infinite, they, on our scale.

All this does not constitute an optimistic vision of the future, it is even the opposite, since we are collectively going to the climate wall without being able to limit, at any time, our needs and our frenzies in the face of a known major danger and demonstrated; the "virtuous green Germany" continues to gleefully plunder its lignite and its coal, like the others, and our nice European "greens" go by (electric!) bike to the airport to embark for a few days at the other end of the world ... no need to bet on the wisdom of man, it is only constrained and forced that he will be limited.

Naivety is to believe that a simple self-limitation will solve the problem, or that a saving shortage will self-regulate the global machine. If there can be regulation other than major crises (which means wars and massive destruction of people and capital), it is certainly not in a restraint imposed on lifestyles and a return to energy of the human muscles (it weighs peanuts) but in the search for efficiency and energy sobriety, and in the implementation of non-carbon energies; there are not fifty.

The limitation of the human population is also part of the gift package (we go there inexorably ...), but it is not the shortage and misery that lead to it. An equitable distribution of wealth and resources is also part of the mandatory means to move towards a solution ...

Well, we have to be 37 or 38 million cars in France, and there is no indication that it's going down; you should not be too far from 1 vehicle per person of driving age
go on, another effort ...

[Eric DUPONT]

Barda simply forgets that in France, there is the carbon tax since that increases the price of the liter of gazoel of 7 centimes every year is 30 cents by 2022 and that this tax will be reajuste to precisely stick to the level of reduction of CO2 emissions. this tax is also added to the natural increase related to the increase of the barrel of oil.

[Ahmed]

Et Eric Dupont systematically forgets the "L" of Bardal!

It is neither the energy shortage nor the climate change that directly causes the collapse to come, but the seizure of the wheels of the system itself. Despite all the subtleties * to circumvent the growing difficulty of achieving the increase of abstract value through the merchant exchange, the colossal amount of money accumulated on the one hand and the absence of truly profitable projects (in the sense systemic) irreparably condemns the logic in motion (sic!).

* Like the "energy transition", the desire to destroy the current fleet of cars in the name of increasingly drastic standards or the "start up nation" or other nonsense of the same barrel.

[moinsdewatt]

.....
Well, we have to be 37 or 38 million cars in France, and there is no indication that it's going down; you should not be too far from 1 vehicle per person of driving age
..

And even a little more :

published the 26.07.17

With an increase of 1,2% in the number of registrations over one year, the French car fleet has passed the 39M mark of vehicles registered in 2017.

https://www.lelynx.fr/assurance-auto/ve ... cais-2017/

[moinsdewatt]

Air Liquide opens third hydrogen service station
Hydrogen on the rise

Published 31 / 03 / 18

Air Liquide opens its third hydrogen fuel station in the Paris region. This will be used to power two buses with fuel cells, but also the fleet of hydrogen taxis service Hype.

And three. The French Air Liquide has just inaugurated a third hydrogen fuel station in the Ile de France after those of the Alma bridge and Orly airport. It is located in Loges-en-Josas and will be used to refuel two buses equipped with fuel cells providing links between Versailles and Vélizy. The station, which has received support from the FCH JU and the European program 3Emotion, will only really come into use in 2019.

For the Air Liquide operator, it is the third station of its kind. Indeed, Oslo and Rotterdam each have a dedicated hydrogen station full of buses. Subsequently said stations will accommodate heavy vehicles and utilities.

In France, the Loges-en-Josas station will also be used to refuel the 75 taxis of the Hype service (Société du Taxi Parisien), whose fleet is solely made up of fuel cell vehicles such as the Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell and rare Toyota Mirai.

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/voiture/a ... 72959.html

[Eric DUPONT]

the development of the hydrogen car will be slowed by the cost of platinum. we will never have the competitiveness of liquid nitrogen.

[yves35]

Good evening,

the development of the hydrogen car will be slowed by the cost of platinum. we will never have the competitiveness of liquid nitrogen.

the future is hydrazote, it's obvious ...


yves

[Eric DUPONT]

effectively. By heating the nitrogen with hydrogen, in the nitrogen engine about 2 is obtained at 3 times more energy per kilogram of liquid nitrogen, 650 memory wh / kg and at the level of the 1 hydogen consumption. kwh of heat provided 1 kwh mechanic.all this at the thermodynamic level. hopefully at least 80% yield. that is to say that to obtain 1 kwh mechanics, it will 2 kg of liquid nitrogen and 30 or 40 gram of hydrogen.