Economic analyzes on the passage from 90 km / h to 80 km / h in France ...

[Janic]

Precisely, the interest of this article is to show, supporting figures, that there is a significant correspondence between accidents and social class, what the usual analyzes try (very well!) To conceal by a construction of globalizing neutrality.

I do not deny this aspect of dissimulation (I am usually opposed to all these dissimulations) but at the same time it must be taken into account that society has changed and that the social classes most affected are also those who have increased their power to purchase to become car owners. In my time, as the old people say (sorry the old ones) the young people (and most of the time their parents too) could not afford to buy a car and moved by bicycle or by motorbike with a population much less important and therefore the involvement in accidents was less, proportionally, than today. Currently, this category, constantly increasing therefore, wants a car as soon as possible, new or used, because our society is like that. So it is understandable, that it is the most numerous categories which are also the most affected, especially if we add the consumption of strong alcohols, narcotics, smartphones and other accident-causing products which are not as developed in the wealthy classes.

Moreover, by reading your argument, it seems that you did not read the article in question well ...; thus, it is specified there that far from your example of two vehicles "filling up", the "working" classes mostly killed themselves, by an exit from the road not involving another vehicle ...

Indeed, I did not dissect, but only read this article quickly enough and some nuances may have escaped me. I only mentioned the job because it was considered that high-end cars were better equipped, stronger, more secure.
But at 160 or 180 km the difference is hardly noticeable.
To "kill themselves alone", it is also necessary to analyze (apart from any social class) the reasons for these exits from the road. Inexperience, speed, alcohol and other drugs, fatigue, medication, etc… and as this social class is the most numerous on the roads, mathematically it is also the most affected.

[Grelinette]

Hello,

As Dirk-pitt said, reading this debate is tedious. Figures and reasoning are presented to explain that this speed limit measure will not give any positive result, or even the reverse, and by deduction that there would be behind this measure other more "hidden" government motivations. ..

I am surprised by these opinions on this site which advocates, in principle, moderation, respect, which goes in the direction of "decrease", and which generally pinpoints excesses of all kinds.
In many ways the drop in traffic speed seems to me to answer that.

That said, what must be understood through the figures and reasoning presented in order to prove the ineffectiveness and the absurdity of this measure?

- That the government would have objectives other than those officially announced?
- That there would be some kind of "conspiracy" behind this measure?
- That the initiators of this measure are based on bad studies, or even that they are incompetent?

For my part, even if I will surely need some time to adapt to comply with this measure, I think that it is generally in the right direction, and not only for the objective of reducing accidents.

[Ahmed]

Janic, I see that you decidedly contented yourself with going through this article and pasting a comment exalting the "absolute relativism" which is dear to you!

Grelinette, although I do not feel specially targeted by your message, I prefer to provide some clarifications.
I do not doubt the concern to bring down the number of deaths, although I doubt that it is out of pure humanism; anyway no plot behind it (just some good old determinisms)! Whether it is in phase (or not) with decreasing does not require naivety: better safety is a condition of automobile expansion.
The study that I cited, and which caused reaction Janic, will lose part of its relevance with the drastic vehicle control measures which will make very recent vehicles compulsory (in the name of formal equality, this will not be discriminatory).
That said, on a personal note, being able to savor my idle without being pressed by others, suits me perfectly!

[sen-no-sen]

- That the government would have objectives other than those officially announced

The government's objective is to optimize the number of deaths in order to maximize the number of vehicles in circulation...
We could very well go below 1000 dead per year and for a long time if we kept lying to ourselves:there are too many vehicles in circulation(nearly 30 million cars!), the best solution consists in reducing the number of its vehicles via a policy based on quantified objectives, this would only have positive points:
-Decrease in the number of killings and casualties.
-Decrease in pollution and lung diseases (nearly 15 premature deaths).
-Decrease in obesity and therefore cardiovascular disease (and yes!)
-Lower public spending on road maintenance.
-Reduction in greenhouse gas emissions.
-Permanent employment in France via a public transport policy.
-Regional redevelopment and return to local shops (1).
-Reduction of our dependence on "highly questionable states".
- Reduction of conflicts in the world and by extension of the number of refugees.
-Decrease in populism and leftism (and yes!).


(1) the grip of mass distribution on local trade is directly attributable to the growth of the automobile ...

[Janic]

Ahmed hello

Janic, I see that you decidedly contented yourself with going through this article and pasting a comment exalting the "absolute relativism" which is dear to you.

I therefore reread, slowly, each part of this article and our two points of view are not mutually exclusive. His analysis is not false, I did not say such a thing, but at the same time by focusing (rightly or wrongly) on the only social class weakened by a difficult economic situation compensated by artifices, common to our era, like alcohol and others, it makes us lose sight that it is not the only parameter which produces this situation, without more, and which I underlined. However, I share his opinion that those responsible are indifferent or disarmed in such a situation and they are therefore led to patch up (or plaster on wooden legs) and of course to make money with his radars in this society focused on money which goes to the state coffers rather than to change what is wrong.

[Ahmed]

You see when you want!

[sen-no-sen]

(1) the grip of mass distribution on local trade is directly attributable to the growth of the automobile ...

Little typo on my part, you have to read the grip of the large distribution at the expense local shops is directly attributable to the growth of the automobile.
My slip, however, is not entirely unfounded in the sense that the monopolies of mass retailing have mostly recovered local trade, often with losses and noise (recent case of crossroads).

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

For my part, even if I will surely need some time to adapt to comply with this measure, I think that it is generally in the right direction, and not only for the objective of reducing accidents.

Quite an open question ....

Since this measure is going in the right direction and since it makes us win 13m braking

We can also say that this measure makes us lose 13 even 26m braking (I extrapolate on the pub in force) what is criminal no? since it just limits the speed to 80 instead of 70 or 60 which would be MUCH more secure.

So for you since this measure is going in the right direction we can think that still less quickly would be even more in the good sense ...

Hence the question: what would be your tolerance for a decrease in speed?
70, 60, 50? less?

[sen-no-sen]

Hence the question: what would be your tolerance for a decrease in speed?
70, 60, 50? less?

This is a pertinent remark, however we can not extrapolate too far this reflection in the sense that logic would lead us to answer zero.
There is a vehicle power threshold that would make the speed reduction unacceptable to the driver.
For a motorcycle hypersporting roll at 90Km / h is already dragging, for cons 30km / h it is already much too much for the cardio number of cyclists ... the speed on a regulated road of a vehicle can be established through a convergence of parameters of the price / risk type, and the power of a vehicle according to a driving pleasure / purchasing power ratio.
Below a certain speed, it is necessary to have access to a new strategy, that is, to change the mode of transport ... something that governments do not want to put in place for the moment.

[Janic]

You see when you want!

eh yes! when everyone puts their own!