Vacuum transport: the key to long distance transport?

[Christophe]

Musk has taken up the concept of vacuum transport: new-transport / Hyperloop-the-train-the-future-t14726.html

[chatelot16]

what transport do we need?

are we in such a hurry? do we need speed so much?

before the TGV there were cheap trains at night ... we left in the evening we arrived the next day, we didn't lose the day ... now there are TGVs that go faster and are more expensive but don't do not run at night ... you have to pay for one more hotel night

I find the price of the scandalous TGV and the lack of lamentable economic train ... and let's not talk about the absurdity of the macron buses ... if it was well managed it is the train which should be economical and available for everyone ... the bus is a means for a developed country which does not have a rail network

finally we are worse than underdeveloped, we are overdeveloped we have a too expensive luxury rail network

[sen-no-sen]

what transport do we need?

are we in such a hurry? do we need speed so much?

before the TGV there were cheap trains at night ... we left in the evening we arrived the next day, we didn't lose the day ... now there are TGVs that go faster and are more expensive but don't do not run at night ... you have to pay for one more hotel night

I find the price of the scandalous TGV and the lack of lamentable economic train ... and let's not talk about the absurdity of the macron buses ... if it was well managed it is the train which should be economical and available for everyone ... the bus is a means for a developed country which does not have a rail network

finally we are worse than underdeveloped, we are overdeveloped we have a too expensive luxury rail network

Yes chatelot you are right.
The real train is the Intercity Coral(speed of 160 km / h max), and if you want a scoop these are the trains that have been the most neglected ... in favor of TGV, TER and the unmistakable Macron buses ...

A BB26000 ("Sybic") with 10 cars in procession traveling at 140km / h it is the ultimate in terms of speed / energy dissipated / number of passengers transported all categories ...

[Christophe]

A BB26000 ("Sybic") with 10 cars in procession traveling at 140km / h it is the ultimate in terms of speed / energy dissipated / number of passengers transported all categories ...

Uh nec plus ultra ... not on ... the SCx of this loco is still not terrible ...

Do you have comparative tables from one train to another?

[Christophe]

Do you have comparative tables from one train to another?

Here is one from ADEME, clearly to the advantage of the TGV ... on the other hand, the TER is worse than the coach ...

The complete .pdf:

Ademe_comparaison_longs_trajets.pdf

(407.2 KB) Downloaded times 249

[sen-no-sen]

A BB26000 ("Sybic") with 10 cars in procession traveling at 140km / h it is the ultimate in terms of speed / energy dissipated / number of passengers transported all categories ...

Uh nec plus ultra ... not on ... the SCx of this loco is still not terrible ...

Do you have comparative tables from one train to another?

Aerodynamics of little importance vis à vis the competition.
Here it is the number of seats reduced to speed that matters.
Air resistance increases with the square of the speed...
The TGV to travel at 280/320 km / h spends on average almost six times more energy than a Coral ... The TER has a generally limited number of seats (like the latest generation Bombardiers) and the coach does not exceed the average 80km / h on a route from city to city.

Small tables:

[sen-no-sen]

The TGV can in no case be more energy efficient than a Coral, unless it runs at 140 ...

[chatelot16]

when there are dozens of wagons behind the locomotive cx does not matter ... the aerodynamic shape of the tgv is almost mainly aesthetic ... an airbus has a less pointed nose than a tgv proof that when we study well it is not the nose that counts

a tgv is very long: it is not the shape of the nose which causes aerodynamic energy loss, it is the wall surface of the whole train and their irregularity: the suspension springs which protrude below, the accessories electric that exceed above do not seem very optimized ... but no matter a more conventional train traveling at 140km / h is anyway more economical

[Christophe]

Small tables:

Method and source of this table ???

Some figures surprise me a lot, notably the ocean liner: maritime transport is by far the most energy efficient ... Obviously with the luxury of an ocean liner the bill goes up ... but from there to arrive at 15 times worse than a car ....

[Christophe]

when there are dozens of wagons behind the locomotive cx does not matter ...

Well no: wagons, like the rear wheels or window of a car, also play on the SCx!
The TGV is optimized in this sense by the more optimized joints between the wagons ...

the aerodynamic shape of the tgv is almost above all aesthetic ... an airbus has a less pointed nose than a tgv proof that when you study well it is not the nose that counts

Basically, I'm just quoting a study from ADEME ... and I'm surprised by the differences with the other table ...