Completion of engine test bed Direct Reaction test!

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15992
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5188




by Remundo » 12/10/09, 13:53

Hi Michael, here's a nice test bench!

We expect the measures with curiosity 8)
0 x
Image
User avatar
elephant
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6646
Registration: 28/07/06, 21:25
Location: Charleroi, center of the world ....
x 7




by elephant » 12/10/09, 18:13

Waaaaaaaaah! If truth does not pierce the day with all this ..... :D
0 x
elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 12/10/09, 21:00

It smells elbow grease and hot neurons : Mrgreen: 8)

To imitate the "cubic characteristic" function of some power bench which makes it possible to regulate the engine load according to the engine speed cube (image of what happens with a car moving on the road) it would be necessary to find couple the engine RPMs to the load cam which would follow a cubic characteristic profile. Thus, there is no more risk of stalling the engine or of going over-revving due to improper handling / desynchronization of the load.


That may be the answer to the question I posed earlier.

Image


Your hydraulic motor must actually follow a cubic law alone without anything having to change. I suppose you have to adjust the max (stop) on the hydraulic motor that in 3000 rev / min motor to the hydraulic motor is stopping you from taking more engine rpm (engine power limit reached for this scheme ). After this adjustment you can make the stop on the throttle. For this to work well, it might be touch tone ratio of 1 / 2 hydraulic motor / engine?

Normally, if it works as I tell you, you no longer have the engine throttle control to control your machine. A small electric actuator with a stepper motor mounted on the throttle and you can simulate a lot. :P
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
wampyr32
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 14
Registration: 01/02/05, 23:22




by wampyr32 » 13/10/09, 00:11

Nice, this engine test bench!
You've put a calibrated discharge valve between the pump and the valve is an indispensable safety?
Rather than tinker with a reducer, it was not easy to weld the differential movement and take on a gimbal?
You could well change gears not to exceed 1500 rev / min.
With solenoid has free return and a hydropneumatic accumulator, you should be able to simulate load cycles.
0 x
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
x 12




by Other » 13/10/09, 04:52

Hello

With this you'll be able to understand certain things you unable to explain ..

As for example when I leave a cold engine test it does not respond well it becomes effective only after a complete stop 5 a10 minutes then I leave and we feel the differrence ..
And why in some cases I have good performance with 0,9 liters of water at 100km and other times with 1,6 liters of water I have the same performance ..

Have you placed an electronic load cell under a motor carrier to measure torque?

Andre
0 x
User avatar
camel1
Pantone engine Researcher
Pantone engine Researcher
posts: 322
Registration: 29/01/05, 00:29
Location: Loire
x 1
Contact :




by camel1 » 13/10/09, 12:59

Hi everybody !

Oufff! I'm late in my mail! : Cheesy:

lejustemilieu wrote:If this load problem is bothering you so much, I have to move my ass, and see the old total research center where I was, on what principle they worked (there were a dozen benches!)
I still have some old friends : Cheesy:
.... (I'll move my ass : Cheesy: ) 15 days .. :? this vat?


Yep, everything is good to take ... and if you can make a good Recycling, at the same time .... : Mrgreen:

Capt_Maloche wrote:..... I have to team, I borrowed the equipment of a friend :D but it is in my forecast


Cool, this is not the most urgent. Otherwise, I spotted various gas sensors which, if they do not provide the same accuracy as special analyzers, will nonetheless provide interesting insights ... to follow.

Andre wrote:... A long time I believed that the external temperature of the reactor was a main parameter but this is not the case (a reactor on gasoline car engine is nearly double heat even at low speed yet its performance is worse than on a diesel which only has the exhaust 300c

Performance of doping with water does not increase with the temperature of the reactor or with the outlet reactor temperature


Hi Andrew, actually, this is not the first time you say it, and I am mindful long ago ... it is clear that the flow of fluids in our proto is not optimized with respect to losses heat, but this is not what really matters to me.
For cons, the intercooler question myself a little more, because if one pricks upstream aerosol will be condense ...?
Suddenly, the latter provision is adopted without intercooler (it was shunted ...)
I remember a post where you talked about that, what do you think today?

Andre wrote:There are several way of seeing things
Some are a preheated before entering the reactor (Vitry) else do a warming after the reactor
else no preheating (HYPNOW)
I did a little warm before entering the reactor and reactor outlet heater (rather a detente output rod remaining in the exhaust.)


Yes, preheating before the reactor is Kevin system, which had been successfully tested on wednesday ...

Andre wrote:After several tests on water spray reactor entry
I pulverize me that idea about a hot water, even very heated regulated electric was not advantageous preferable to spray water at room temperature is a 25 30 a C and not to heat up this portion of bedroom, entry 22C low temperature has 30C gives hottest reactor exits as an entry 80c 90c.
My best performance also with reactor output 120C a140c
GV produces steam but adding air with this reactor inlet steam produces a condensation cloud fog
this fog must be in a lukewarm temperature neither too hot nor too cold if we want fine droplets.


That too, I had taken into account. Despite everything, Claude wanted to experiment with different types of steam production, GV, heated minute cooker, fogger, bubbler .... nothing obvious because for now, we measured nothing tangible ...
But it is certain that the "vapor problem" is, as you often say, decisive in the success of an assembly ...

Andre wrote:I'm not Strongly believes that we must absolutely circulate it at high speed in the reactor, I eliminates the Venturi admission to less depression in the reactor therefore less speed, the water is still the consomation even the reactor outlet temperature to drop 180c has 140c
left to do some verrifications on fuel consumption measurements on the test runs.


You surprise me, I tended to think the opposite ... between your tests and the bench, we should be able to decide on it ...?

Andre wrote:In your test do not forget to measure the exact temperature which enters the reactor and what emerges some cm before entering the collector (although measured with an internal sensor in the pipe to not suffer the copper tube contact effect that cooled in admission.
Another important measure is the exhaust temperature
it has linked the power demanded of the engine if no flange admission .. (she tells us instantaneously on engine performance)


Yes, yes, that's what we did, and the probes are moved according to the configurations, in strategic places!

Remundo wrote:Hi Michael, here's a nice test bench!

We expect the measures with curiosity 8)


Hi Remundo, we did that for this purpose, and we hope to have a good harvest. And with your help to all, on this forumI think we can move even faster! :D

wampyr32 wrote:Nice, this engine test bench!
You've put a calibrated discharge valve between the pump and the valve is an indispensable safety?
Rather than tinker with a reducer, it was not easy to weld the differential movement and take on a gimbal?
You could well change gears not to exceed 1500 rev / min.
With solenoid has free return and a hydropneumatic accumulator, you should be able to simulate load cycles.


Yes, of course, a check valve is the least, we do not want to end up oiled from foot to cape : Mrgreen:

For the reduction, I had considered this style of solution, but Claude, who deals with the mechanical aspect, opted for the chain and sprocket solution to be able to offset the pump (history of implementation constraints ...)

As for response times of hydraulic proportional valves, it seems to be very fast, so cushy enslavement .... just have to find one!


Flytox wrote:... To imitate the "cubic characteristic" function of some power test bench ...
Your hydraulic motor must actually follow a cubic law alone without anything having to change. I suppose you have to adjust the max (stop) on the hydraulic motor that in 3000 rev / min motor to the hydraulic motor is stopping you from taking more engine rpm (engine power limit reached for this scheme ). After this adjustment you can make the stop on the throttle. For this to work well, it might be touch tone ratio of 1 / 2 hydraulic motor / engine?


Hi Fly, change the ratio, it's going to be difficult, as it is ... however, the diagram on the hydraulic pumps is interesting, we actually noticed that the pressure dropped as the oil warmed up ... which is logical.
So, is taken into account for calibrating our test series ...

Flytox wrote:... Normally, if it works as I tell you, you have no longer the engine throttle control to control your machine. A small electric actuator with a stepper motor mounted on the throttle and you can simulate a lot. :P

I'm not sure I understand, you suggest pushing in full charge, and just change the rpm?
My idea would be to do partial load tests, which is better for the automotive reality ...

On the other hand, the overall idea of ​​doing "dynamic" tests speaks well to me ...

Andre wrote:Hello
With this you'll be able to understand certain things you unable to explain ..

As for example when I leave a cold engine test it does not respond well it becomes effective only after a complete stop 5 a10 minutes then I leave and we feel the differrence ..
And why in some cases I have good performance with 0,9 liters of water at 100km and other times with 1,6 liters of water I have the same performance ..

Apparently, a motor is very sensitive to weather conditions, we have measured very large differences next day ... without active pantone. The order of roughly 10% ...
This is not nothing, and if this is added to the performance brought by doping, this will make you change your results in large amounts at once to another ...

Andre wrote:Have you placed an electronic load cell under a motor carrier to measure torque?

Andre


I guess you're talking about some kind of strain gauge, but no, there is not that. The torque must be deduced from the pressure at the pump outlet, by combining with the rpm ...
We had considered a gauge shaft output, but the price has discouraged us ...

Otherwise, I raise the request, if someone had a plan for Recycling hydraulic pressure sensor that mounts jusqu'autour of 200 bars, it would be very convenient, at least to enjoy this famous couple with more precision ...

Voilou, that's it for today!

Thank you all for your kind attention :D

A + + +

Michel
0 x
We were on the brink, but we made a big step forward ...
wampyr32
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 14
Registration: 01/02/05, 23:22




by wampyr32 » 13/10/09, 21:20

you should also recovers the yield curve of your hydro pump to calibrate correctly. What brand and model?
It will also estimate the losses in the transmission chain.
0 x
User avatar
Flytox
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 14138
Registration: 13/02/07, 22:38
Location: Bayonne
x 839




by Flytox » 13/10/09, 23:31

... Normally, if it works like I tell you, you only have the engine throttle to control your machine. A small electric cylinder with a stepper motor mounted on the throttle and you can simulate many things. Razz

I'm not sure I understand, you suggest pushing in full charge, and just change the rpm?
My idea would be to do partial load tests, which is better for the automotive reality ...


It is difficult to explain... : Mrgreen: When the bank runs in cubic feature is that it automatically controls the speed / power input. Like when you're 5 ° on your car. You can not do overspeed, the power absorbed by the air is too high and you limit before. You get every moment the maximum speed of the vehicle / Maximum RPM that is able to have your engine to the throttle position that you give.

You ride cushy, it takes 2000 rpm, you roll faster it accelerates slowly and stabilizes higher in the towers say 2500 rpm, you open more frankly and when you arrive at the moment when the brake absorbs all the power of the motor, it can not go up. This is what looks most like normal car use.

So, set a power threshold absorbed in agreement with your engine, it looks like the power consumption of the original vehicle for 3000 r / m for example; mid and mid power range of the speed at random : Mrgreen:

The torque curve of a car engine is rather hunchback, you have to marry the tone brake power absorption curve and a 1 / 2 gear that will fall right or wrong ... some tests make. : Mrgreen:
0 x
Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
User avatar
AXEAU
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 197
Registration: 06/10/09, 09:04
Location: DROME
x 7

Realisation of the direct reaction of test engine bench




by AXEAU » 15/10/09, 21:26

Hello,
Here I am finally on the right subject, here are 2 photos of the collector adm.
Image
0 x
User avatar
AXEAU
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 197
Registration: 06/10/09, 09:04
Location: DROME
x 7

Realisation of the engine bench




by AXEAU » 15/10/09, 21:51

Hello Flytox.

I'm not good at computers yet but it will come.

On the first picture we see ech tube vertically and the output of the reactor on the right on which connects the aluminum ubulure
which brings the steam to the nearest breech.

Here is the photo of the disassembled collector, I have not been able to send each other.
Image
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Water injection in the engines: the assembly and experimentation"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 175 guests