Pantone on motorcycle Terrot 350

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
Christophe
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by Christophe » 26/02/07, 10:04

Sorry but I am completely the opposite of your opinion!

I think that pantone editing on such a machine would be beneficial to show that with old engines can get the performance in terms of depollution and conso recent engines..voir turn vegetable oil (30 40%) .

Obviously before embarking on such an "adventure" you need a good stock of spare parts to be able to put back the original motorcycle for X or Y reason. Otherwise, of course, I do not recommend changing it too ... you have to stay reasonable.

Otherwise a general opinion that shocks me a bit in your comments: when we do the research (because it is) we must not see the profitability all over... : Evil: ... if not so much not to do sorry research ...
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denis
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by denis » 26/02/07, 10:06

there is no interest for this engine: we do not know the maximum power (that's not what you're looking for!) you win the couple (there are some)
for the cons, it is not a well!
pass on another vehicle, it will be the best.
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by denis » 26/02/07, 10:26

Christophe wrote:Sorry but I am completely the opposite of your opinion!

I think that pantone editing on such a machine would be beneficial to show that with old engines can get the performance in terms of depollution and conso recent engines..voir turn vegetable oil (30 40%) .

Obviously before embarking on such an "adventure" you need a good stock of spare parts to be able to put back the original motorcycle for X or Y reason. Otherwise, of course, I do not recommend changing it too ... you have to stay reasonable.

Otherwise a general opinion that shocks me a bit in your comments: when we do the research (because it is) we must not see the profitability all over... : Evil: ... if not so much not to do sorry research ...


on this model, we do not think profitability, but preservation!
there is enough old engine 70 / 80 years to experiment, cars type r5, there are a million in nettles, because rusty, I have 4 paperless cars waiting, I can give one to make our research, even 2! ; I am going too far, but less than 5 km from home there must be!
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nialabert
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by nialabert » 26/02/07, 13:02

I find it really sad to ride a pantone on such a motorcycle. It must be redone and used as is.


In addition it is going to be a galley not possible to run the mill in 100% pantone.

Buy something newer (an Xt600) but not too much. There you will already have spare parts much more easily and it is a construction which corresponds better to our time.
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by Christophe » 26/02/07, 13:25

denis wrote:on this model, we do not think profitability, but preservation!


Yes I agree where my 2 paragraph is not? 8)
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by antoinet111 » 26/02/07, 16:06

STOP IMMEDIATELY; STOP

Sacrilege, we do not touch a becane 80 years, c not serious, it's worth a small fortune and c part of our history, you would pantoniserait ford T 1932 you ??? Well, the same.

people would exchange it for a newer becane, 500 gse, CB, africa twin, even flat twin I'm sure.

in addition it is not done to ride with two, or with a baby seat.

http://search.ebay.fr/terrot-350_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8

go good road.
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by laurent.delaon » 26/02/07, 17:35

Hello,
Do not do this on your bike.
It's completely con.

You're really going to damage it, it has no interest and will not bring anything.
(and without wanting to discourage you your system will not work on it: too complicated.).
Try on another newer one.

Goods.
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by Segub » 27/02/07, 02:07

Hello

Well, if I expected all these reactions I would have been more discreet.

Rest assured, I don't want to hurt her at all. I spend too much time and effort on it to get it back to working order. If there is any change, it is obvious that I will keep the original parts carefully aside, time has given them an inimitable patina. And as I said in my first message: "For the moment I am thinking about the problem and if it is viable in my eyes, I attack". However, it hasn't been viable for the moment.

She has 75 years now and I am not at all of your opinion for its fragility. It can still make a good package of terminals with a very honest reliability. You have to go back to see her deeply and track down the ravages of time on the pieces, and if her case is that I would have done my job badly, I would just roll up the sleeves. Do not put these machines in the houate or under a bell. In the thirties, they sent the whole family, without leaving a hairpin, to leave a side. The lateral ones were the horses of toil. It will take me well to the four corners of France.

Before I had an 1000 Laverda. The plupard of those who admire it in their garage and do not dare to leave it because it is expensive and difficult to maintain. Mine did a minimum of 17000 km in winter, I struggled with on small roads, I grabbed cramps in the mountain, I cut on the highway so it vibrated at the handlebars at high speeds, I feasted with this fabulous engine, I had intense pleasures and great scared, after crossing France, I put on the central in a groan of fatigue and pain, completely ruined, but I was happy to have been in symbiosis for a few hours with this restive pursang.

These trips are among the most intense memories and that I cherish the most. it's true, I used the beast but keeping it like new in the back of the garage would not have given me the 100th of the pleasure I had to pilot it. Times and events have made me part with it. Now can I take one back and what do I take? A bland, soulless modern thing? It seems that you have to be "reasonable" too so I chose this old Pétochon which rides at 70. I'm going to wear it too, it's true, but I would have 100 times more pleasure to ride than to ride. keep it in the back of my garage. There will always be people who will look at them and keep them as capital that is increasing in value, something to be kept and hidden ... but that they will not take with them when they die. Me neither, I would not take him but in the meantime, pantoner or not, I will be the happiest of men to feel and listen to this old horse live while admiring our beautiful planet ...

Here is my indictment, I hope that one understands me a little better now.

For the 100% Pantone, I cogit hard and the project has evolved a lot. Although it may never be, I always go on the idea that he climbed on the Terrot which, by the way, is an exelente base of work: simple, rustic, obliging to consume things simply to Implementation. And if it can walk on a basic laterale, its can work on all modern machines, a 4 time is a 4 time.

Good I stop, it is very late, tomorrow I work. I'm following the soap opera ... Thursday normally.

A plus the company!

Segub
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denis
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by denis » 27/02/07, 08:15

a real bikerImage
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by Segub » 01/03/07, 23:38

Hello

Well, let's get down to business.

First of all, thank you Denis for proposing a 500 Z but ... there, it is you who jokes. An 500 Z is the very type of what to avoid taking, it ensures a failure even if the pantone works. On modern engines or pushed like those of a motorcycle, it is put to profit the phenomena of the pressure waves with the exhaust and with the admission. we change one or the other and the yield changes ... badly because left to chance. It can lose without problems 1500 turns and 15 CV to be impossible to set if one wants to make 4 in 1 badly gaulé. These machines are too difficult for now. Must take engines or pressure waves are can used. And then 4 cyl. motorcycle is more work than a mono.

For the pantone, I think we must consider the whole system as a giant carburetor. For the moment, we are doing as at the beginning of the century. The oil was heated, the vapors were swallowed, and the wealth was regulated with a small tap. We must be able to do better.

Here is the evolution:

[Img] https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/partager/PANT1.bmp
[/ Img]

It is a schema of principle done in a hurry but:
In 2: Depression sensor that drives the 8 model servo-motor that moves the 7 wealth eel.
In 3: place of exit of the reactor and the venturi. My venturi will make 20mm. The original carbide diameter for the minimum pressure loss
In 4: air butterfly. I thought put the old carb for the Estetique but it is too worn, with leaks everywhere. If I put it on, I make sure I'm idling more than doubtful.
In 5: the reactor for now always with the 8x120 rod in an 10 tube inside so a section of 6mm².
In 6: small carb. of 5mm without its power supply
In 7: Needle nozzle of the small carburetor moved upstream of the bushel, modified to have its needle driven by the servo-motor.

Explanation of the operation:

The pressure sensor drives the servo motor. It is calibrated with the fuel flow at idle and with the flow at full load. between the two extremes, the fuel flow will be proportional to the depression in the intake. It is not exact as a process but it is simpler to achieve electronic side and not dry how much to enrich or deplete diet, it will be like that for now.

I placed the reactor after the butterfly, it is not a habit apparently because of the concerns of strong depression in the butterfly inlet closed. But placed before, I'll have trouble at low speed, slow motion. I will have to place a tight venturi in this place and a big loss of load. In addition, the reactor will be lazy at recovery, cause eliminatory carburation holes. placed after the butterfly, it should be brighter being in strong closed butterfly depression.

Because of this annoying reaction time, the distance and the mixing volume must be as small as possible between the nozzle and the intake pipe while losing the least possible charge, which makes it a story of compromise, we can not spare both.

I put a bushel in 6, between the jet and the reactor. It will have to be coupled with the butterfly 4 but they will have to have asynchronous openings, not easy. On the Petochon, I'm lucky to have a double commende for the carbu: a throttle and a throttle. At first, I would separate well the butterfly of the bushel and control them separately to know how they agree between them. Surely fastidieu to roll well but surely essential not to get stuck in the settings for a crazy time. Otherwise, I'm not fixed on its final position: must it be before or after the jet? I will continue to ponder this point. his cheek on wealth at opening and on slow motion.

Voila, I stop there for tonight, I have not said everything but there is already something to do to get reactions from all of you.

Next time I will submit an idea for the reactors and a thought on the performance of the pantone among others.

See you for the rest of our saga: "The crazy hopes of Pétochon!"

Segub
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