Pantone mounting PATROL 3L3TD

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Wonder TITI
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by Wonder TITI » 03/04/07, 10:06

Thanks Camel,

I understand your system.
But I thought that the ideal was a cold vapor for the reactor!

On your assembly of 205 D, you recondense the vapor. Why?

JP
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camel1
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by camel1 » 03/04/07, 15:08

Hi JP!

Wonder TITI wrote:But I thought that the ideal was a cold vapor for the reactor!

On your assembly of 205 D, you recondense the vapor. Why?

JP


What the steam generator produces is a vapor whose T ° is less than 100 ° C (you have to stay in saturated vapor!)

I am not trying to recondense the vapor, the arrival of fresh air is close to the reactor, in order to minimize the transit time of the aerosol in the reactor, and eliminate this risk ...

In terms of the 205, I had planned a condensate return, especially for the shutdown phases, in order to return the liquefied water to the GV.
With the GV ver2.0, this is no longer useful. 8) thank you Laurent : Wink:

If this drawing interests you, here are some thoughts and advice that I submit to your sagacity:
It is better to start on the drawing of the mercury, with a Y just before the entrance of the reactor, on which the steam from the steam generator arrives and the fresh air from the air filter.

Regarding fresh air, I thought about it last night, reconsidering the case of my 205, with its current system.
I do vacuum tests on the intake, to force the suction to the reactor.
So I have to work on the big air hose on the filter side (the most practical in my case)

However, the intake of the reactor inlet hose is precisely located (and for the same reasons : Cheesy: ) at this location, see photo on the site.

So I had to disconnect these hoses, and then I realized that there were lots of drops of water of condensation towards the air filter, and inside these hoses : Shock: !

I then understood why, each time I start cold, I have a big gray cloud for about thirty seconds, then after, nothing ... : Lol:

This therefore provides one more argument for the idea of ​​putting an independent "tuning" air filter directly at the inlet of the reactor, to allow the residual vapor to leave there, rather than towards the inlet ...

In your case - turbo - there is however a problem, depression.
The suction is done downstream of the turbo, after, we are (as soon as it comes into action) in compression.

The GV is designed to operate under negative pressure, because the lower the pressure, the lower the boiling temperature, thereby facilitating the generation of saturated "vapor".

The more the engine forces, the greater the vacuum (within certain limits)
So the generation of steam will follow the engine demand - that's the goal of the game for the GVI -
Depression has a regulatory role in this process.

So, if you opt for a G + style geometry, the reactor outlet must be pricked at the turbo inlet, measure the depression, and if necessary, put a venturi if it is not sufficient (at least - 0,1 bar at slowdown)
As for the location of the reactor, look for the best location in the exhaust line, without worrying too much about the distance from the manifold.
The most important is admission, the shorter it is, the better.
So, position your reactor so that the outlet is closest to your turbo nozzle ...

Limit your intervention to an admitting tapping and to the preparation of an end of exhaust line with reactor and integrated steam generator, easy to refit / modify ... (scrap metal, what ... : Mrgreen: )

If you have questions, do not hesitate !

Michel
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Wonder TITI
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by Wonder TITI » 03/04/07, 15:49

Thank you Camel, it's nice to see your enthusiasm and your help is precious !.
camel1 wrote:So, if you opt for G + style geometry, the reactor outlet must be stuck at the turbo inlet,
If I can allow myself a criticism, I don't like this solution very much. Redo the steam through the turbo and then through the interco, I'm almost certain to condense. If I understood correctly, at a standstill, while the steam generator is still producing steam, I am afraid that the turbo does not like too much!
I will first finish my assembly but I lack the instrumentation to validate my tests ...
I am finishing my connection next weekend. I will keep you on course!

JP
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camel1
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by camel1 » 03/04/07, 18:19

Resalut!

Wonder TITI wrote: If I understood correctly, at a standstill, while the steam generator is still producing steam, I am afraid that the turbo does not like too much!
I will first finish my assembly but I lack the instrumentation to validate my tests ...
I am finishing my connection next weekend. I will keep you on course!

JP


Precisely, an independent air filter, closer to the reactor, will offer a natural outlet for residual steam, so this risk is a priori eliminated ... but hey, I see that you are well advanced on your current assembly.
Do as you plan, and give your results.

As for admitting, others who have experimented on TD will no doubt be able to give their opinion on this thorny question ...

For the rest, at least try to take the T ° steam to your reactor, and check if possible your (de) pressure.
This will tell us how your editing works.

Good luck and to +++

Michel
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by Wonder TITI » 03/04/07, 20:10

camel1 wrote: Precisely, an independent air filter, as close as possible to the reactor, will offer a natural outlet for residual steam, so this risk is a priori eliminated
I'm going to take a closer look at what you did. I may be moving a little quickly on certain subject
camel1 wrote:For the rest, at least try to take the T ° steam to your reactor, and check if possible your (de) pressure.
This will tell us how your editing works.
... except that I would be in pressure not in depression! In fact I would need a differential pressure gauge: Padm and Psortie reactor.
For temperature, it's planned. I would take it in the bubbler and in the intake.

JP
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My 4x4, I treat it so that it pollutes less: the oil in the reservoir and the water vapeure admission !!!
bolt
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by bolt » 03/04/07, 22:39

Hello

here is a simple solution to check the differential pressure between reactor inlet and outlet
Image

bolt
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by camel1 » 04/04/07, 11:37

Hi everybody !

Bolt wrote:here is a simple solution to check the differential pressure between reactor inlet and outlet
bolt


Exact bolt, except for one detail, is that it is necessary to measure between reactor outlet and bubbler inlet, in the case of JP.

JP, I continued to think about your arrangement. In fact, your reactor / bubbler assembly is mounted in parallel on the intercooler.
If you compare its exchange surface with that of the reactor, it's a safe bet that the pressure drop it generates is much lower than the whole proto.
Therefore, the air flow, seeking the easiest path, will go mainly through the intercooler.
We could schematically compare this to two impedances in parallel, the current separates between the two branches, and mainly towards the least resistive.
Except that, as far as the bubbler is concerned, this slightly modifies this analogy, insofar as there is a threshold effect (like a diode). The air pressure must overcome that of the water column contained.
As long as we are below, nothing passes -> inactive reactor ... the two elements being in series ...

As you are going to have a very weak delta P at the limits of the intercooler, there is a high probability that you will be below this threshold condition ... : Cry:
In this case, you will have the possibility of restricting the passage through the interco to force it towards your prototype, without being able to predict the consequences on the overall efficiency of the engine, and the impact on the functioning of the turbo ...

Otherwise, I imagined a small variant of the GV, which could be grafted onto your system as it is, with the advantage of eliminating the pressure drop caused by the bubbler ...

If you are interested ... : Cheesy:

You just have to try all of this, to get an idea ...

A ++
Michel
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Other
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by Other » 04/04/07, 16:02

Hello
Except that, as far as the bubbler is concerned, this slightly modifies this analogy, insofar as there is a threshold effect (like a diode). The air pressure must overcome that of the water column contained.
As long as we are below, nothing passes -> inactive reactor ... the two elements being in series ...


This is exactly how I see the bubbler, I see things through my electric side, the 0,7 volt threshold once crossed it only becomes a weak resistance to the passage of bubbles, this is where the water level, but the water level apart from its (threshold) at another defect the bubbles which travel in a great height of water are less efficient than that which sprays little water.
C, is an observation that I made each time that the level becomes low in the bubbler I feel a revival on the reactor, it remains to verify if it is not a higher temperature, who would do that? although I have doubts that it is the water level .. the conditions are repeated often.
(in my case the depresion and around 3metres)

Andre
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Wonder TITI
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by Wonder TITI » 04/04/07, 22:09

Thank you bolt, your idea is bright!
camel1 wrote:The air pressure must overcome that of the column of water contained
The level in the burner is adjustable with the height of the carburetor and the plunger is adjustable in height too. I envisioned a low immersion of the plunger precisely to combat the back pressure of the liquid in the plunger.
camel1 wrote:As you are going to have a very weak delta P at the limits of the intercooler, there is a high probability that you will be below this threshold condition ... : Cry:
In this case, you will have the possibility of restricting the passage through the interco to force it towards your prototype, without being able to predict the consequences on the overall efficiency of the engine, and the impact on the functioning of the turbo ...
There is no question of restricting my admission, in a quagmire of clay, we need all the power!
camel1 wrote:Otherwise, I imagined a small variant of the GV, which could be grafted onto your system as it is, with the advantage of eliminating the pressure drop caused by the bubbler ...
If you are interested ... : Cheesy:
of course! Especially since a bubbler seems to me more and more inadequate for mounting with a turbo!
thanks again
JP
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My 4x4, I treat it so that it pollutes less: the oil in the reservoir and the water vapeure admission !!!
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Wonder TITI
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by Wonder TITI » 04/04/07, 22:12

I see that the masters agree
Andre wrote:... (in my case the depresion and around 3metres) ...
and how do you measure that?
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My 4x4, I treat it so that it pollutes less: the oil in the reservoir and the water vapeure admission !!!

 


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