Pantone Engine: geographic-help, general

[Christophe]

This is where you can react on the PMC Resource Link project. Here is the mail that I sent to the mailing list:

Edit: visit forum dedicated to entre aide to find information, people in your area or pantone engine assembly experiments: https://www.econologie.com/forums/experiment ... -vf42.html

Hello everybody

After a few of your reactions, here is how I see things for "the future". Sorry this mail is a bit long but I tried to address all the points ... Thank you for your reading.

The message below confirming my idea of ​​a kind of federation I put it as an attachment since I fully agree with it and that it is only that way that things can move forward as quickly as possible.

1) First of all your reactions:

They were, to my surprise, rather positive (does Xavier to moderate the negative? Maybe I do not know) ... well it is certain that the "spies and profiteers" of all kinds are silent and remain " Silent "... Most of you, finally what has reacted, have confirmed my email, certe a little aggressive (but to react people times that's what it takes!).
I had some reaction in private also quite positive but aiming to "bring back my feet on the ground" and no purely negative trying to destabilize me! So positive points.

So this first point goes in the advancement of this "union" and pooling.

2) The organizational

It is best to use the skills of everyone, I mean that we do not improvise, for example, motorist. Everyone will have to make the best use of their own knowledge and skills to make the "thing" better. Some will be more technical, others more administrative and more able to organize meetings, make contacts, report, etc etc ...

All the skills of motivated people will be welcome but it is essential to know how to delegate, trust and above all not want to take ownership of the system and seek to make a lot of money quickly ... this is the best way to reduce to nothing a union and that is exactly what our detractors are waiting for !! Anyway, given the refusal of the pantone patent, the system does not belong to anyone and everything that is published on the internet belongs to the public domain! Paradoxically, this is, in another, what limits its industrial development.

a) human resources

All those wishing to participate in the joint project will have to take stock of their skills that they can contribute to the project. A common information sheet could be useful for this step. Huge human resources and skills are available to retirees! Most only asking for help to advance the "thing"!

b) legal

That's how I think the thing could work best: several reactive local association grouped in a national "federation" to structure the advancement. Advantages: rapid exchange and regional and national reactivity, no oligarchy. Disadvantage: heavy to set up, need of very competent lawyers, of a faultless communication and to designate "regional responsibles". The simplest way would be to simply take inspiration from the functioning of the AFM organizing the telethon or the restaurant of the heart: the 2 are national with regional delegations. Obviously joining existing associations is possible ...

c) financial & material resources

Money and the sinews of war, but even more that of R&D. Without money we will do NOTHING. I do not believe in an efficient manner in volunteering: the skills of each person will have to be remunerated (not necessarily financially) in a more or less equitable manner. Why would some take advantage of the long working hours of others for free? Without a "balance" on this side ... the project will not be done in a virtuous way! Obviously those who want to give can do so, but it is out of the question that the majority of the actors in the project will graciously benefit from the work of the other minority! And that's quite normal!

Self-financing would be the way to give us all possible freedom but beware the R & D engine costs ... very expensive. Here are some possible ways of financing:
- membership fees therefore need permanent recruitment
- organization of informative conferences (at NON PROHIBITIVE prices!)
- donations via a "polluthon" ... the idea is thrown at you to think about it!
- sale of experimental equipment / motor ...
- etc., etc...

You should know that the instrumentation of an engine test bench costs about 150 000 €.
For proof take a look at the means of IFP: http://www.ifp.fr/IFP/fr/espacepresse/D ... sOffre.pdf
Without these means we will still tinker in 10 ANS !! How much time and energy will be wasted!

In other words: I think that an association of 50 or 100 people will come to nothing ... against 1000 or 2000 person federated and going in the same SENS
could start to have a weight (media and financial) towards the industrialists and the traditional media. We are 800 on the list .. and I am sure that each of you knows 2 or 3 people wishing to work on the subject. Make the calculation: 2000 person making a donation / contribution of 50 to 100 € (which is finally the price of 2 full of gas!) Allows to have a significant financial weight without speaking of the resources resulting from the actions of the union !

Again, I'm insisting that without a union of the resources of each of you, we will not succeed.

Material issue: Any recovery of useful material as well as availability of machining / welding / assembly equipment would be welcome.

3) Action Plan

The goal of this union will obviously be to advance R&D, in order to understand and master the process. The dissemination of information will be the second goal.
We could achieve quickly (after a few months) on the sale of modified engines. The last 2 aim to finance the 1er and the skills of each.

In the immediate term, it is a question of seeing if the idea holds the attention of a minimum of competent entities (physical or moral) and wishing to get involved in a sustainable way in the project.
Otherwise it does not help NOTHING to waste time on this idea.
For this I created a discussion space on the forum of econology:

It would be desirable to meet on this forum rather than exchanging emails on this mailing list, in fact it is much easier to find information on a forum only on the list ....

Personally I do not know what level of involvement I can intervene: I am motivated but everything depends on your motivation ... I launched the idea, I think it is achievable but everything depends on you now!

Here is the idea is revived ... I can not do anything more in the current state of things ...

Christophe

[zac]

Hello
as usual I did not receive the Mailling !!!
It does not matter our association and these few members are available to everyone to make the project evolve.
We are broke, but we have a lot of demerde (African) experience; so we can do a lot with very little.
in our area of ​​expertise we have 2 mechanics (an airplane a marmar) two three teachers and institutes (to explain the why of the how) , a Physiotherapist (to get us back in shape after the work).
We would need an electronics engineer and an aquaculture specialist.
@+
zac

[emlaurent]

You should know that the instrumentation of an engine test bench costs about 150 000 €.
For proof take a look at the means of IFP: http://www.ifp.fr/IFP/fr/espacepresse/D ... sOffre.pdf
Without these means we will still tinker in 10 ANS !! How much time and energy will be wasted!

Hello!

The above web link is not good !!
I did not manage to find the good link on the IFP site.
Is it possible to have the full link?

Thanks, Emmanuel

[Christophe]

Here it is : http://www.ifp.fr/IFP/fr/espacepresse/D ... sOffre.pdf

[athieu78]

I fully agree with the email of November 9 sent by Christophe Martin and I am ready to make my contribution to the national pantone union project if it is done.

For this I have spoken of the project to a few friends who say they are ready to participate in the project. We could participate financially in the project (the contribution of 50 to 100 € seems really very affordable) and we can spread our project to the maximum of our knowledge.

For our competence, we are not an electrician, a mechanic ... but we can of course lend a hand to the construction of pantone motors.

For that it would be necessary that a local union is set up on the side of Mantes-la-Jolie because we have neither the place nor the equipment to make this kind of experience.

We will do our best to contribute to the development of this engine. However, being students we will only have weekends or holidays to help you.

On the other hand, I was scandalized to learn that some, animated by bad intentions, take advantage of the naivety of novices (of which I am part) to swindle them. The pantone engine is a recent idea, innovative but which bothers many industrialists because it calls into question the importance of an element on which our society is built: oil. Also this kind of bad initiatives for very lucrative, can only help to kill this project in the bud.

The more we leave with “pure” (non-profit) intentions, the more likely we are to see in the near future all cars running on a greener engine.


Mathieu martinez

[lusitano]

Helo,
not very easy financially however am very interested in membership (not + 50 euros)
my skills welding mig mag + tig + arc, oxydecutting and folding. lusitano and all my encouragement in this way

[buga]

I don't see any evolution on this subject ... in fact, I have just discovered it, and it seems dead ...
here is my opinion to me .;
federating is obviously a good idea ...
but please don't try to involve
neither politics nor justice, whether it be by the simple fact of filing statutes of a federation or association ....
it’s not oil, really, that runs the states ....
it's money ....
and for decades this power of money has gone through oil.
which therefore gives the impression that petroleum is the nerve of war ...
but when the oil has been replaced by something else, it will be this other thing that will have all the looks of power ...
the lobbyes, which I call rather mafias, will move ...
and believe me, I am convinced that formalizing a federation will only bring you difficulties ...
you shouldn't become paranoid, but ....
the money mafias which effectively control this current world, will not be embroiled in prejudice ...
I believe that any attempt at formalization, of sale of pantone systems, of over-united gene, will be undermined by the mafias, the lobbyists, who are smarter than us in matters of laws, and will not arrive an incredible bias and unsuspected of all, to break the egg before the chick hatches ...
here is...

[ThierrySan]

I hadn't read that either !!

But this initiative is very good ... However, I remain skeptical about the distribution of resources: regionally, departmentally, or nationally ?! Because engine test benches, it would be necessary to provide answers by association ...

For the question of self-financing, you forgot a means that allows me to be relevant: the sale of books produced by associations for example ... right ?!

It could well tempt me such an entity, but you have to tweak a lot there ...

[Christophe]

The visualization of this part of forums is now reserved for registered members.

[queff]

Hello,

I land a little, and I admit I do not control the organization of this type of structure ... However I believe that a national structure will be difficult to manage, and expensive ... An organization in clubs would be more flexible, with for example organization of demonstrations under a common banner ...

Zac wrote:

We would need an electronics engineer and an aquaculture specialist.

Aquaculture is my thing, Zac, so don't hesitate, it will be my pleasure.